I picked up a Model 19-3 last weekend and I am going to shoot it Saturday. I read on a few other boards that it is not good to shoot 357 mag 125gr loads in a M 19. Is this true? If so why. What about 125gr 38spl loads?
Thanks

I would stay away from the 125gr. all the way.You will have a hard time to find a barrel for it if you screw it up .

Lighter/faster bullets can eventually cause the forcing cone to crack, then there's no barrels available to fix it and another answer must be found.

I too would like to know what is the mechanism involved in creating the forcing cone cracks.

I can only think of flame temperatures associated with super fast 125 grain magnums causing embrittlement of the steel.

I bought a 6" Mod 19 back in the 70s and the word out at that time was that "occasional" use of 357 Jacketed loads was OK. It was suggested that either 38 Spl(+P) or 357 Mag 158gr Lead ammo be used for an ongoing basis. The thinking was that the K Frame was just not strong enough to withstand a steady diet of hot jacketed 357s

I may be wrong, but I think that by the time the 19-3 or -4 came around, they were aware of the problem and had taken some corrective action on the problem. Did it work? Well, seems to me that the cracked forcing cones is an issue only with early guns, Combat Magnums through the 19-2.
If you are looking for a gun to feed a steady diet of full power 125 grain bullets I would choose an L frame instead.

I believe Wyatt Earp has a handle on the source of the M19 forcing cone problem.

The 125 grain bullets driven to maximum velocities used large charges of relatively slow-burning powders. Handloaders know the powder types as WW296 and H-110, among others. The combination of slow ball-type powders and the short bearing surface of the 125 bullets allows prolonged gas cutting of the forcing cone and top strap area, accelerating erosion and wear.

Borescope studies of rifle, machine gun, and auto cannon chamber throats shows a lizzard-skin-like texture due to this gas cutting damage, called "brinelling". The results of brinelling are fine microcracks that weaken the surface of the steel, and further promote erosion. In machine guns and auto cannons, barrel life is measured in terms of "useable accuracy", and round counts that determine this are based on group sizes at engagement ranges.

In the K-frame magnums, the forcing cone dimensions combined with the barrel shank dimensions results in a relatively thin shank at the 6 o'clock position, where a machine cut is made to clear the crane. This is usually where the forcing cone cracks. The L and N frames use much beefier barrel shanks and do not have this cut. S&W intended the K frame magnums to be "carried much and fired seldom" service arms, designed to fire .38 Specials indefinitely, with light to moderate use of .357 Magnums. You notice that S&W has discontinued production of K frame .357 magnums, no doubt due to product liability issues and a couple generations of K frame magnum experience.

I dont think todays' 125's are hot enough to cause problems. The old Super Vels and the like, yes; today's, not so much. THe 125 Gr is still the best man-stopper out of a handgun. If it's for personal defense, load up.

quote:

Originally posted by st regis:
I dont think todays' 125's are hot enough to cause problems. The old Super Vels and the like, yes; today's, not so much. THe 125 Gr is still the best man-stopper out of a handgun. If it's for personal defense, load up.

I have a 19-3 and a 19-5 both in excellent shape,
and would not be afraid to shoot a box or two of
current production 125gr through them.

I think current ammo from REM.,WIN., and FED.
is pretty moderate.

I've fired several thousand rounds of "Hot" 125 grain .357 Magnums through just one of my Model 19-3s and using a Barrel Throat Gauge it shows only about .001 of a change and I'm not sure I'm that accurate in my measurements.

Yes, back in the '70s Super Vel tried to "Superize" the .357 Magnum and all they did was some really lousy loading and used some totally improper powders - that's if they remembered to put any in!!!

These were powders not available to the general public. Well they "Superized" themselves Right out of business.

Ask Massad Ayoob what "the bullet of choice" is in .357 Magnum???

This "Issue" comes up so often it's enough to make people sick. It's BS!!!

KKG,

With all due respect, your individual experience with ONE S&W M19 means very little statistically. I have one that fired a documented 50,000 rounds of .38 Spl in PPC competition in less than two years. It's seen less than 100 rounds of .357 Magnum ammo, and is still in excellent/v.g. condition. Does that mean that my piece will last forever using .38 Spls? No, but it is only one gun.

S&W themselves acknowledged the durability issues of the K frame magnums for service use and came up with the L frame series as a more durable model.

Ask S&W trained armorers what the repair history of M19 police guns is, and they will likely tell you about the (apparent) lack of durability when fired extensively using magnum ammunition. I know I have personally seen and inspected dozens of K frame magnums that developed excessive cylinder endshake and headspace, gone out of time, badly eroded forcing cones, etc from my association with police armorers. When addressing the durability of tens of thousands of that model of revolver, S&W must have come to some conclusions from field reports and service bulletins. I've only seen a few, but inspecting for cracked forcing cones was one of them.

Thanks everybody for the information. I intend to mostly shoot 158gr hard cast bullets for plinking and some 158 gr JHP from time to time.

I have no desire to shoot thousands of rounds of full power .357 Magnum in a K frame. At the range, mild .38 Specials would do just fine.

For self defense, I would not hesitate to load it with Remington 125gr SJHP's in .357 Magnum.

quote:

Originally posted by Wyatt Earp:
I too would like to know what is the mechanism involved in creating the forcing cone cracks.

I can only think of flame temperatures associated with super fast 125 grain magnums causing embrittlement of the steel.

some explanations here
http://www.gunblast.com/Butch_MagnumLoads.htm

quote:

Originally posted by Gress:

quote:

Originally posted by Wyatt Earp:
I too would like to know what is the mechanism involved in creating the forcing cone cracks.

I can only think of flame temperatures associated with super fast 125 grain magnums causing embrittlement of the steel.

some explanations here
http://www.gunblast.com/Butch_MagnumLoads.htm

Hmmm.....Interesting. I see two failure mechanisms that combine: embrittlement and flame cutting from hot gasses and stress corrosion cracking.

I don't worry about it. About 95% of the ammo trough my M65 are 38 Specials. The other 5% is split between 158 and 125 grain Magnums.

I do carry 125 grain Remington SJHP .357s.