quote:

God has blessed me with a great dad.

I am just as blessed as anyone else. He served his 22 years in the Army, even when he sometimes did not like what he was being told to do.

Men of character and integrity are what this country lacks most right now. Too many men raised by their mothers, or by no one at all.

Rushbeau, your story is heartwarming. God Bless your dad and what he did for us.

quote:

Originally posted by sw44spl:
great photos thanks for posting them.now who was in the navy that can post pics of the F8 crusader?

www.vfp62.com should have a few photos of the F8U-1P, later known as the RF8A.

quote:

Originally posted by mod57:
Rushbeau,
Can't take credit for that pic. I never served with the "Bowling Felix". My tours were mostly with VF-24, VF-114, VF-213. All flying out of old NAS Miramar. Did a short tour with VF-143 out of NAS Oceana. She just cost too much and took too many man hours to keep flying...damn shame.
regards,
Ralph

When were you with the World-Famous Puking Dogs? I was with them Oct 81 - Apr 85.

Rushbeau,

Were you an IS before you got commissioned, or did you do something else? I was a PH for over 14 years before I made LDO.

520

Model520fan,
I was with the World Famous Pukin' Dogs from '77 to '80. Made half a cruise with them on the old America and the first deployment of the Ike.
regards,
ralph

Rushbeau,
Lots of great memories- wish you Dad well for me!

As an Air Force brat, a VN-era vet and an old flightline weenie, what were your Dad's actual dates of service?

Good shooting.

Rushbeau and others,
dug up this pic (I hope) of a VF-24 F-8 Crusader at Cam Ranh Bay, 1966.


regards,
Ralph

Hello folks,

MakeMineaMagnum - Thank you for the kind words. You made my dad's day.

Model520Fan - I was an electrician's mate during my enlisted days. I had received orders to the Broadened Opportunity for Officer Selection and Training (BOOST) school located at NTC San Diego. I graduated and had earned an NROTC scholorship at the University of Oklahoma. When I graduated, I was commissioned in the regular Navy (rather than the reserve) because I was a BOOST graduate. I had received orders to flight school (I was about to embark on my dream!), but as I was saying "so long" to the CO, he handed me an order mod. which sent me to the Navyy/Marine Corps Intelligence Training Center (NMITC) instead. It turns out that the semester I graduated, the Navy had a shortage of intelligence officers, and it was the only time the Navy assigned NROTC graduates to intelligence (almost all intelligence officers came from AOCS). I was one of a handful of intelligence officers who was regular Navy. Though I did not get to earn my wings, I still had a very interesting job and had the opportunity to do a bunch of interesting things.

Homie - My dad enlisted in the USAF when he graduated from high school in 1955. He was a B-52 Bomb/Nav technician for four years. One day during lunch, he heard an advertisement on the radio for the Aviation Cadet program. He ran over to Personnel and enrolled. He graduated at the top of his class and received orders to flight school where he graduated at the top of his class. He made his solo flight in a T-34 Trojan in JUN59. When he earned his wings, he was assigned to the training command from 1960-1965. Upon completeion of his ATC (Air Trainig Command) tour he chose F-100s. He flew F-100Ds until May66. His F-100 squadron was based at Alexandria, Louisiana. When he was deployed to Vietnam, he had to fly non-stop to Misawa, Japan (a 16-hour flight). The F-100s his squadron flew did not have an autopliot, so he had to be on the stick the whole time (the F-100 required the pilot's constant attention). The flight required five refuelings. He says refeuling after the fourth time became a real chore. After he was shot down, he flew as a Forward Air Controller until SEP66. He was then ordered to F-4 school. He flew F-4Ds until 1970 when he transitioned to FB-111s. A typical Ardvark mission lasted at least eight hours, but he had a copilot and an autopilot.

Ralph - That's the aircraft my dad was going to fly for the Navy on his exchange tour. That was a well-regarded airplane. My dad said that if he would have had to do ACM over Vietnam, he would have wanted to being flying Crusaders, because it was armed with cannon and was a good, tough airplane. He didn't fly up North, so he did not encounter Migs. The F-4 guys he new (based out of Tahkli) were really frustrated, because the F-4C was not equipped with a gun, and the AIM-7 success rate was about 10% (so only 1 Sparrow out of 10 actually worked as intended). Fortuantely, all our fighters now have a gun.

Thank you for your participation, your kind words, and your questions. This has been a really interesting thread. You folks make the Smith & Wesson Forum a good place to visit.

Best wishes,
Rushbeau

yes mod57 now thats the jet.a true gunslinger. thanks very much.

quote:

The F-4 guys he new (based out of Tahkli) were really frustrated, because the F-4C was not equipped with a gun, and the AIM-7 success rate was about 10% (so only 1 Sparrow out of 10 actually worked as intended). Fortuantely, all our fighters now have a gun.

I remember reading the AIM-7's were designed for greater than average dogfight distance, and the F-4's could close the gap on the early Migs. This combo was such a bad fit they actually designed a pod that could be fitted to one ordnance rack of the early F-4 models that contained a 20mm multibarrel cannon.

Ever since then all fighters have been spec'ed with cannon which has always given our fighters the option of close in fighting, as well as ground strafing. Funny how extreme sophistication always seems to lead us right back to the basics.

I guess the basics, just like the Model 15, always work so they never go out of style.

TNRat,

The AIM-7 was designed for engagement of targets beyond visual range and was purpose-built with the F-4's air intercept radar (the AIM-7 is a radar-guided air intercept missle). At the time DOD believed the F-4/AIM-7 combination would make ACM obsolete, so the F-4 design ommitted a gun and emphasised high service ceiling amd high speed (max level speed at sea level was Mach 2.5) over agility. The F-4 was an interceptor, rather than a dogfighter. Even with these deficiencies, our guys who flew the Phantom II over Vietnam did an excellent job helping the NVA/Chinese MIG pilots die for their country.

When the war turned hot, the political environment produced rules of engagement that severely restricted BVR engagements. The F-4 was forced into ACM engagements. Since the AIM-7 was designed to interecpt airborne tagets beyond visual range, it did not lend itself to high-G deployment. Very often, a missle was launched with too much G on the launch platform, and it could not track to the target. The launch perameters were pretty narrow, so the pilot had to work very hard to place his airplane into a very narrow launch window to maximize success. If the missle had too nuch G on it at launch, it could not turn sharply enough to track to the target; and if it were launched too close to the target, the warhead would not have time to arm. Often-times, the warhead would not detonate or the motor would not ignited simply beacuse they were defective. This was really new technology that had not yet been thoroughly developed.

The Air Force soon discovered their pilots could be quite useful in their aircraft design. At the pilots' request, squadrons began to install a gun pod on the F-4. Though its utility for ACM was minimal (and certainely much better than no gun), it was pretty good for ruining the enemy ground-pounder's day. By the time the F-4 had progressed to the E-model, it finally had a gun and a pupose-built sight. My dad used that gun pod alot, and he says it would shake the whole airplane and shoot a fifty-foot pattern on the ground. When strafing area targets on the ground, he would work the rudder peddles side-to-side in order to "walk" the rounds on the ground.

You are so right about the basics. The Smith and Wesson revolver design is a mature technology that is quite old, but it works just fine; and, the 38 Special is a fine cartridge though it is old. It seems many people fall for the idea that "newfangled" always means "better" or superior", though the evidence does not necessarily support such a contention. I really wish S&W had not discontinued the K-frame revolver, as it will just make my search for a good Model 15 more difficult (and I really like the K-frame).

Best wishes,
Rushbeau

quote:

Originally posted by mod57:
Rushbeau and others,
dug up this pic (I hope) of a VF-24 F-8 Crusader at Cam Ranh Bay, 1966.


regards,
Ralph

That is just a tough looking plane. Thanks for posting Ralph.

Thanks rushbeau; this is such an enjoyable thread.

Tough looking, yes and built. They were also "interesting" to work around on the flight deck. That jet blast will strike you about calf/ankle level and it can take your feet out from under you and you might go on an unathorized swim call!
regards,
Ralph

Rush,
I was co located with the AF at Ubon AFB during the VN war. We were a small group of Army Aviators that were constantly jealous of the AF Zoomies. But the AF treated us really well, never ate better before or after. One thing I did notice about the M15s, the AF Police wore 4" guns, and the fighter pilots all seemd to have 4 inchers as well. The Bomber crews frequently carried 2 inch 15s, in a really neat flap holster. We were issued M10s HB, SB or RB 4", and some of the guys had 45s from previous assignments which they carried. The AF Armorer on the base took my M10 and gave it an action job that was the best I have ever seen. Of course I foolishly turned it in when I left.
The rational for revolvers for pilots was that it only required one hand to operate, and hand/arm injuries were frequent in ejections. Additionally the revolvers could fire the 38 flare cartridges that were issued. I did get one of the really neat 4" AF flap holsters for my M10, that I did keep. We carried ours in a pouch type shoulder holster with additional rounds in loops (12 or 18) on the large shoulder strap.
I think the F100 was the best, meanest looking plane the AF ever had, of course it might just have been the aforementioned jealousy, as we puttered along at treetop level(or lower).
Kudos to your Dad.

AKVAO1MAN,

Thanks for the reply!

My dad carried his revolver in holster and gunbelt he had made for him before he left for Vietnam. The rig looks similar to an old Western-style rig, except it was made for a Model-15 and did not have the drop Western holsters had. He carried twenty for rounds in leather loops sewn onto the belt. This rig did just fine during the ejection.

Some of my dad's squadronmates suggested he keep his revolver and claim it was lost in combat. He very much disagreed with this, and he was concerened that such would end his carrier. Today, he is retired and highly decorated, and he flew a lot of different types of airplanes. He could have easily earned a dishonorable dischardge had he taken his squardonmates' suggestion. He does wish he could have kept that revolver. It would sure be nice to have! However, he did manage to recover the fuse section from the mortar that impacted behind the tree against which he was sitting while writing a leter to my mom. Thats how he knows it was a Chicom mortar.

I too think the airplanes of that era, such as the F-4, F-8, F-100, F-105, and A-7 had a "tough" appearance bout them. I have met several pilots who later transitioned to newer generation airplanes (F-16 and F-18), and they say that they preferred flying the older genertion airplanes, because they had a feel to them that the newer fly-by-wire airplanes just don't have. Pilots who have never flown older generation airplanes don't have this experience, though.

Best wishes,
Rushbeau

rushbeau and all the rest, thanks for your service and rushbeau....tell your Dad thanks. He was one of many real fighter pilots of a bygone era.

I loved the pics of the F8 as well. I was an air traffic controller at MCAS Yuma from 1972 to 1975 and until about 1973 or so we worked the last F8s in the Marine Corps, an occasional visiting Marine reserve squadron out of Navy Dallas [NBE].