OK, I'm still steamed so I'm posting the full conversation I had with Matt Fugate today. Read it from the bottom up to be chronological. The prior history is an acquaintance of mine bought a 5" nickel 10 from them about three or four weeks ago, got it and found it was freckled on/around the muzzle, discolored nickel on the cylinder, and while advertised as about new "in the box" the box was for an entirely different gun. Very deceptive. The gun was very nice and pretty, and he got it off GB at an "OK" price ($450 gavel price I think, before shipping and transfer), so he settled for a $50 refund from them instead of sending it back. We (buyer and I) discussed this at length and he was on the fence about stuffing the gun back to them for the fraud, or just keeping it because it was pretty and he had it in hand. I was on the fence about it, too, since I like nickel S&Ws, and it was a damn pretty nickel 5", even if they had lied about it. Their defense is, apparently, "even if we lied, the buyer bought it once we refunded some cash." OK, here's my ranting email post (again, read from bottom up to be chronological):



Hey Matt,

If you need to justify yourself to me, you need to find a new hobby. Perhaps even a new business...

But the thing that is really offensive to me is that I am from Kentucky. I grew up around Louisville, and my family has been in Danville and environs for about 150 years, and still is. You guys make me sad that a subset of gun owners and collectors will form an opinion of that lovely state based on your practices.

I tell you what, I resolve to:

1) Use proper punctuation and grammar,
2) Deal ethically and honestly up front and not have to go back and make amends,
3) Just be nice to others like Christ asked and not go pick fights.

If I do that rest of my life, I still fall short of erasing your bad karma, but I'll still try. And I've got a 33 year head start on y'all....


Bryan Kamerer
Redomond, WA
- Hide quoted text -



On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 3:33 PM, Fugate Firearms wrote:

We sold 1860 guns in the last 12 month and yes some do fall through the cracks. We had 6 returns out of the 1860 so I think that speaks for itself. Let this man speak for himself. I talked to him on the phone and offered every penny he was going to be out and we made the deal right. WE not you, so looks like you are just another band wagon fellow that wants to fit in. Good job sir.









From: Bryan Kamerer [mailto:jellyroll4@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 5:25 PM
To: Fugate Firearms
Subject: Re: Model 10



Hello Matt,

I disagree entirely, and no, I'm not "talking out of school." I saw the gun, saw the box, saw the ad, discussed in detail with the disappointed buyer. I can only assume you don't know what that phrase means. I also know the disappointment he expressed about it frankly with me. One shouldn't aspire to have to "make a deal right" after the fact. One should strive to be correct from the start.

Bryan Kamerer



On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 3:17 PM, Fugate Firearms wrote:

I think you are talking out of school. We did not burn the gentleman that bought the gun. We made a mistake and we made it right. Last I heard the man was happy with the deal. Way to jump on the wagon welcome aboard.


Matt Fugate

Physics 101: "Velocity" is speed and direction. Otherwise it's just "speed."

When are these boys going to realize that emailing people is a bad idea? I've published emails they sent to me, emails they assumed would never be seen by anyone but me. It's a very effective technique for revealing the true colors of some out there, and that definitely applies to these insects.

THR still has an open thread in the trading post under the heading -
Rate Private and Retail Transactions.
looks as tho the THR moderators are keeping it open as long as it doesn't get too nasty.

Bruce

I had to chime in on that thread. Also I contacted the 58 seller and Mal H, the admin on THR. He said that the Fugates were being watched carefully and that I was not the only person to send a cautionary email.

quote:

Originally posted by Cthulhu:
I had to chime in on that thread. Also I contacted the 58 seller and Mal H, the admin on THR. He said that the Fugates were being watched carefully and that I was not the only person to send a cautionary email.

Outstanding!

Looks like I'll be able to unfeature these two threads for a while. Frankly, I'm getting tired of looking at these insects' name everytime I look in. And since it seems we have managed to spread the word far and wide, perhaps it's time for a breather.

Of course, the first time a member forwards emails to me from these insects with their bullshit attempts to undercut deals already made, all this will go right back up, and stay there for months.

Got that, Matt and John? And, as always, get an adult to help you with the big words.

I just read the Fugate thread over on THR forum and didn't really like what seems to be the attitude of the Admin toward the Fugate brothers, or to those forum members who post anything negative about them.

Rather than post my experiences with the Fugates and get into a "contest" with THR, I went to my personal options and changed my email address to a non-existent one, effectively cancelling my membership with THR.

I can still read posts over there if I care to, but cannot post or view the classifieds - which is fine with me if they want to let the Fugates work their forum.

If I buy or sell a gun on a gun-enthusiast forum, I want to know that I'm dealing with honest folks.

I don't think that poster Mike is a member of the Admin there, and, to be fair to him, he said he wanted to see emails, etc. (proof) of what was being said.

Even Gizamo came off "OK" in his second post (didn't care for his first) and I don't see a real problem with discussing the F Brothers in a feedback type section. I would think, if one were buying a gun on the Net, that the buyer would check the feedback section if one was available. If they do, they sure can't say they weren't warned.

I almost emailed Mike and invited him to this forum to read our "proof" but, since I really don't know anything about him, didn't.

All in all, the F Brothers are getting pretty well trashed IMO.

Bob

ttt

This most recent incident should cause anyone on this forum to really think about trying to do business with the Fugates.

First, the prices they ask for most of their guns are out of this world, topped perhaps only by G. Wimer.

Second, as the negative feedback on GB mounts, and as incidents like Kamerer's get reported, it is clear that the Fugates upgrade the conditions of many of the guns they harvest and resell. Several such examples are chronicled in this thread.

Bottom Line: avoid the Fugates!

BTT

Let's keep this at the top so anyone searching for info on how these two "crooks" do business will be able to easily find it.

They are currently trying to harvest guns off The Highroad Forum and have already sold a faulty M-17 to one member there!!!

TTT

On THR, Fugate has explained the genesis of his troubles with this forum. He claims someone asked for a value on a Smith, a forum member said it was worth $600, then bought the gun for that price.

Fugate, offended apparently by the forum member lowballing the poster, told the seller he'd been had and offered $800 for the gun Fugate claimed was worth $1000.00

Makes a good story, but I don't recall that happening. I tried to find anything similar, but couldn't.

If it didn't happen, maybe one of you guys more familiar with the start of the problems (before the spam) could call Fugate out on his claims and provide links to the truth, if there are any.

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by straightshooter1:
On THR, Fugate has explained the genesis of his troubles with this forum. He claims someone asked for a value on a Smith, a forum member said it was worth $600, then bought the gun for that price.

Fugate, offended apparently by the forum member lowballing the poster, told the seller he'd been had and offered $800 for the gun Fugate claimed was worth $1000.00

Makes a good story, but I don't recall that happening. I tried to find anything similar, but couldn't.

If it didn't happen, maybe one of you guys more familiar with the start of the problems (before the spam) could call Fugate out on his claims and provide links to the truth, if there are any.

Bob

Here's the link to the thread Bob (straightshooter1) is speaking of. Interesting how the Fugates try to explain their mis-deeds!!

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=378146&page=2

quote:

Originally posted by woodsltc:

quote:

Originally posted by straightshooter1:
On THR, Fugate has explained the genesis of his troubles with this forum. He claims someone asked for a value on a Smith, a forum member said it was worth $600, then bought the gun for that price.

Fugate, offended apparently by the forum member lowballing the poster, told the seller he'd been had and offered $800 for the gun Fugate claimed was worth $1000.00

Makes a good story, but I don't recall that happening. I tried to find anything similar, but couldn't.

If it didn't happen, maybe one of you guys more familiar with the start of the problems (before the spam) could call Fugate out on his claims and provide links to the truth, if there are any.

Bob

Here's the link to the thread Bob (straightshooter1) is speaking of. Interesting how the Fugates try to explain their mis-deeds!!

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=378146&page=2

Do you have to be a member of "THR" to view the thread? Seems I had a membership over there some years ago...but never wasted any time over there...this place is fun enough.