Hi, all. Snowy afternoon off and I'm playing around with some less than perfect grips from a couple of not-really collectible S&W's. M-1911's post got me wondering. Here:



Now, the Victory grips are stamped on the back with the correct S/N; the gold medalions are not stamped at all (if there was pencil it is long gone); the silver medalions have a s/n that does not match the gun stamped on them.
Question, how reliable are these markings when found? The Victory has a pretty well defined history prior to my acquisition (no letter as yet but good verbal provenance); the gold's came with a 2nd model converted .455; the silver's on a re-done Brazilian.
I realize these (the two medalion sets) are in pretty poor condition but are they more or less desirable enough to be thinking of restoration work?
I was actually going to utilize one or the other on a post war Smith temporarily.
Thanks

The gold medallion grips are in pretty good shape. They could be cleaned up and very lightly re-cut to look near new. (looks like only the right side has much wear). I soak them in acetone, put them in a drying cycle in the dish washer to raise dents, then lightly trace the checkering with a carbide hand checkering cutter. I finish them with linseed and/or wax depending. I'm no pro, but I've turned a few pieces of scrap back into presentable grips.

The Brazillians still have a ton of potential, too. I picked up a pair in similar condition for $25 a while back. They will never be anywhere near new looking, but with some work, now they look right on a well-used gun.

As for use on a post-war, they're probably too long and will overhang the bottom of the frame.

Chris

Thanks, Chris. Good tips. What about general confidence in markings or the lack of? I was looking at the Victory and was actually surprised how nice it is (for the $ I paid). That got me to wondering, cynic that I am, how one can know if stamping is legit or not.
The use on my post war is only until I can substitute so looks aren't really a concern.

JD

The pencil-marked serial numbers are certainly subject to being suspect,
particularly if the grips do not fit the same serial-numbered gun perfectly.
If they do fit perfectly, then they are probably original. Otherwise, if they
fit poorly, they are definitely not original.

As to stamped serial numbers, there were lots of extra grips, that were never
shipped witht a gun, but rather sold separately, one way or another. Those
could subsequently stamped, but again, if the grips fit the gun perfectly,
then they are probably original. If they fit poorly, they are not original.

Victories may, or may not, be another story. Certainly, anything pre-Victory
had the grips fitting perfectly - assuming they were wood. They were sanded/
ground until they fit the frame perfectly. I don't know if that practice
continued during WW2 .

Later, Mike Priwer

Thank you, Mike. May I gather that it is not a huge concern until the time comes to evaluate a truly 'complete & original' collectible?

They can be restored. This pair looked worse than yours.
DW

I can attest to DW's abilities to restore them!


Chris

Well...looks like that is added to the to-do list. Tbanks all.

quote:

Originally posted by DWFAN:
They can be restored. This pair looked worse than yours.
DW

Hmmmmmm, those look familiar.... Could it be?

JD, I can second NFrame's comments about DW's work... one thing though, get them up to him while you're still young.... and he's still around.....

No Drew those aren't yours. They are a pair I did for Michael Stern who I might add is a very fine gentleman and friend. Not like a few miscreants that proliferate on this forum.
The outer butt edges were broken, which is common. Checkering almost non existant on one panel and heavily oil soaked, also common. Plus they were resized to fit another gun. It was an absolute pleasure on my part to be able to bring them back to a some what acceptable condition.
DW

quote:

May I gather that it is not a huge concern until the time comes to evaluate a truly 'complete & original' collectible?

JD

To me, the originality of grips is not a big issue, perhaps because I am not a mint-condition collector. To those who are,
then of course the status of the grips is much more important.

I've always viewed grips in a different manner than the rest of the gun, anyway. Woodworking has been a life-long hobby,
and so I've always admired really nice wood being used for grips. Typically, this means something other than factory, if for
no other reason that the quality of the wood itself. I'm also a fan of restored grips, as typically the wood is older and
sometimes has some nice grain. DW does a nice job of bringing that out,as does Keith Brown, and others.

But, more important, I'm interested in important guns, and for me, that often means guns that belonged to important shooters.
Back in the day, it was common to either modify the grips, or replace them with something that fit their hand better. Wrapping
with cork and tape was common, and in a lot of cases, the original grips are long gone.

So Yes - grips are not a big concern. Not at all !

Regards, Mike Priwer

Someday I hope to be able to put to better use all that I see and read here on this forum. If I can absorb and retain it, that is - not getting any younger
I will most certainly try to take advantage of the restoration skills in the not-too-distant future.
However, I would like to hijack my own thread on something that Mike has referenced (maybe it should be separated?):
What are the various categories of 'important' S&W's? Certainly, as said, they would include notable shooters, company (S&W) familiars, J.Edgar of course - what about others? does this neccessarily limit collection to a very rarified strata?
Thanks

quote:

What are the various categories of 'important' S&W's?

JD

Now we're getting somewhere ! Just to simply acknowledge that there are important S&W's, in and
of itself, is an important recognition . This kind of thinking has a big impact on collecting.

You've touched on a couple of the important categories. Certainly, noteable shooters is one
category. Guns that were shipped to LEO's are another significant category, and for me , target
revolvers shipped to LEO's are very interesting. Typically, but not always, these guns were for
their shooting teams. There are lots of LEO's, so this is not such a rarified strata. On the
other hand, Texas Ranger target revolvers are a real challenge !

Another category is guns shipped to important people, who ususally, but not alwsys, were not
important shooters. For example, recently the guns of CA Congressman Cecil King have come on the
market. King was an avid sportsman, but not a noteable shooter. His claim to notoriety is that
he was the co-writer of the Anderson-King Bill, which was a 15 or so year effort with Senator
Clinton Anderson. Most people know this bill by its signed-into-law name: Medicare . Then there
are the guns of George Patton, Curtis LeMay, and many other luminaries.

Another category , unique to S&W, are the zero guns. There is only about 500 or so , and some
are less important than others. Each one has its own story, being described in a separate factory
records book. Of course, a similar category is the experimental, or X-serial number guns. I don't
know how many there are, but it is clearly limited.

Military contracts are another important area. I think the Army , and Navy, 1899 contracts are
good guns, inspite of the generally poor condition of most of them. Each contract was only for
1000 guns, although there never seems to be a shortage of them on the market. Perhaps this is
because there is rarely, if ever, a name associated with any of them. Navy Victories, in really
good condition, are very popular, although again there seems to be no shortage of them.

For me, I like the targets in the model of 1899 and 1902. Its not known how many there actually
are, but total .38 production is about 21000 1899's and maybe 10,000 1902's. The 1902 1st changes
are another 30,000 or so, but even there, targets are scarce. I've written about the model of
1902, because it is the earliest example of the K-frame line as it exists today.

I'm sure there are other categories, that others think are important. Perhaps we will see
some comments about that.

Regards, Mike Priwer

Mike, I always appreciate your insight - oh yeah, great article in the other post!
Thanks