I've got a S&W "russian" that looks pretty good and is made as well as any S&W but I don't think it is one. Too many inconsistencies - a lack of markings, looks more New Model 3 than Russian, etc.. What does a "Tula" made russian look like - I'd love to see a photo. It's not a Ludwig and Loewe - I've seen a photo of that. Thanks!

John

More:

This S&W or copy of a S&W has no markings, except for a "B" on the cylinder face and matching serial numbers on the base of the grip, the face of the cylinder, on the inside of the top strap of the barrel where the latch is located and in between the two prongs on the frame where the latch fits. There also might be the same number on the latch but it's hard to see.

The barrel profile is like a New Model 3 but it is 7 inch, the latch looks like a Russian, there is no nut holding the cylinder in place, the frame looks Russian and the trigger guard has the spur.

John

You're going to have to post good photos to get a definitive opinion. There are many different foreign copies of the S&W New Model No. 3. Tell us a lot more about your gun. Caliber? Metric or English? (Are you positive?) CF or RF? Any frame markings under the grips? What are the grips made from? Any logo on them? What is the stamping on the top of the barrel rib? Describe ALL markings exactly and where they are on the gun. Cylinder length? What type of mainspring? What type of front sight?

opoefc,

You are right - not nearly enough info.

[IMG:left] [/IMG]

caliber - 44 russian CF - I'm pretty sure - a 44 russian cartridge fits and the inside looks just like my real Model 3 cylinders

Frame markings under grips - an "X" and that's it

Grips are replaced cow horn?

No stampings on top of the barrel rib - I don't think there ever were any

Pinned front sight

Mainspring? - looks similar to the spring in my real New model 3 but attached to the grip differently

Cylinder length - 1 1/2 inches

Markings - there aren't any! As I said, other than the serial number or last 3-digits of the serial number on everything, the only mark is a very small stamped "B" in a square on the face of the cylinder

The thing that intrigues me the most about this thing is that it is really well-made. As good as any S&W from back then. I've always thought about these copies as being cheap knock-offs. Isn't that the point - to make it cheaper - because you can't afford the original? There is nothing cheap about this revolver that I see.

Well, any help that you can provide will be appreciated.

John

Levollois, I'd expect the NMM#3 Guru, Jim Supica will chime-in soon. He has more experience with these than anyone I know. As far as I can tell, it is not S&W made. To wit:, there are two pins in the "boss" just above the trigger. S&W has a smaller boss and only the trigger pin was enlarged for strength. Mike

It is probably Spanisch. Have seen several fake S&W model 3 to day at a gunshow at Belgium.

Thanks for posting the pics. This is not a Smith & Wesson made gun, but a very good copy - probably made in Europe - possible Spain. Not all Spanish copies are junk ( Doug Wesson once visited some Spanish gun makers in Eibar and he said they showed him some T-Lock copies that were very bit as good as any made in Springfield). The quality of work might lead one to believe your gun was English or German made, but I discount that due to lack of proof marks from those countries, plus the serial number would indicate it isn't a prototype that never got proofed. All above IMHO. Ed.

I appreciate the replies. Spain seems to be the consensus - I don't have a problem with that. I wonder why they didn't put any markings on it? I've got a book around here somewhere with proof marks by country - I'd like to look up that "B" in a square on the cylinder face. If I get some time I'll take it apart a little more and look for other marks. Thanks again!

John

Sometimes they stamp the Smith and Wesson mark on the upper barrel just let the gun look S&W made.
I dont know if it is mandetorie to proof the guns in Spain.
But the revolvers I have seen didnt had any European proofmark wich can give them away as a fake.

Thuer,

I think what has happened with this revolver is that it has had the proofs/markings removed - this is especially apparent on the left side near the hinge are of the barrel assembly. Looks like someone sanded this area probably to hide the fact that it was a copy.

If it isn't Spanish then it's probably Belgian. The "B" I mentioned on the face of the cylinder looks like a Belgian proof mark when turned upside down - like a stylized "E" and "I" put together. Anyway, I appreciate the help.

John

Looks like the remains of the ELG mark.
This is the Belgium proofmark and used for blackpowder and later Nitro tested firearms.

There are several stamps. A oval whitin ELG or the same oval and then a crow added.
If so the (just from memory) crown is added then it is proofed after 1894.

That isnt the case with this copy.
You can have very fine made copy's ore just junk.

I do think to buy a copy of the model of 1881 just to own one in my collection. This one is really neat made. But a dead give away are the gripplates with a dog on top of it.

It depend on the price. The owner is convinced that it is a real S&W. It is easy you can open the side plate. I bet there is no S&W lock overthere but a Warnant one.

I found an old "Old Town Station" catalog (about 10 years old) and there was a Belgian S&W copy in it that looked just like mine - the description was spot-on too. So, it appears this probably was Belgian made. I thank all who replied!

John