There has been a great discussion on this forum & in the SWCA forum on firearms restoration & rework. I thought a poll might be fun & interesting.

For the following, let's assume that we're talking about a somewhat scarce & very desirable S&W model of your favorite choosing. It might be:

* Target Triplelock
* Registered Magnum
* Schofield
* 5 screw .44 Magnum
* K-32

Assume the gun is in "NRA Wretched" condition - horribly beat up finish, but restorable.

We can agree that if a gun belongs to someone, it's their decision what to do with it, at least up to the point of criminal fraud. This survey is whether you personally "disapprove" of various types of alterations to a classic gun.

With those assumptions, how do the following fit your taste?

* PREFERABLE = A good idea - I'd prefer that those changes were made.

* ACCEPTABLE = It wouldn't bother me if thoses changes were made.

* UNACCEPTABLE = Nope. I don't like it.

Question:
Mechanical repairs to make the gun functional

Choices:
Preferable
Acceptable
Unacceptable

Question:
Swapping grips to a more correct style or better condition pair.

Choices:
Preferable
Acceptable
Unacceptable

Question:
Marriage with a factory box of the correct type.

Choices:
Preferable
Acceptable
Unacceptable

Question:
Expert restoration to factory "as new" condition"

Choices:
Preferable
Acceptable
Unacceptable

Question:
Standard gunsmith refinish - fix up the cosmetically & mechanically, but in a way that will obviously be a refinish.

Choices:
Preferable
Acceptable
Unacceptable

Question:
Expert restoration to factory "as new" condition, but changed to a more rare configuration (i.e., nickle instead of blue, rare barrel length, etc.)

Choices:
Preferable
Acceptable
Unacceptable

Question:
CCW package - bob the barrel, convert to round butt w/ crimson trace grips, night sights, bob the hammer spur, electroless nickel finish

Choices:
Preferable
Acceptable
Unacceptable

Question:
Expert restoration with factory style engraving.

Choices:
Preferable
Acceptable
Unacceptable

Question:
Expert restoration with rare markings added -- i.e. police dept markings, military markings, old presentation inscription.

Choices:
Preferable
Acceptable
Unacceptable

Question:
Would it make a difference to any of your answers above if the gun has some known history, such as ownership by an LEO, outlaw, prominent individual, champion target shooter, etc.?

Choices:
No alterations would be acceptable
Fewer alterations would be acceptable
It doesn't make a difference

Question:
Would it make a difference if the gun had previously been refinished during the period of original use?

Choices:
It would make no difference.
More types of restoration or rework would be acceptable
In that case, anything goes.

Question:
Would it make a different if the gun was a very common model?

Choices:
It would make no difference - same limitations apply
It makes some difference - more alterations acceptable.
In that case, anything goes.

Question:
Should restoration artists mark their work?

Choices:
In every case
Only if the customer permits it
No, it's not important

 

Since I am an "acumulator/shooter" and not a collector, boxes, correct grips and pedigree papers mean diddly squat to me.

If I like the way the gun looks and it's mechanically safe, I'm gonna carry and shoot it, period.

No safe Queens in my house.

MOONDAWG

Moondawg,

No disrespect intended but can we stipulate that those with the "I'm gonna carry and shoot it, period" attitude NOT vote? You're certainly entitled to your opinion but it will distort the poll results if those to whom these issues don't mean "diddly squat" are voting.

Thanks for considering it.

Kevin Williams

quote:

Assume the gun is in "NRA Wretched" condition - horribly beat up finish, but restorable.

Jim

Interesting you would choose this particular way of descirbing a candidate !

Beyond my tongue-in-cheek comment, your survey idea is a very good one. It will help to quantify what
a lot of us think. Its interesting to watch the results as time progress's. Usually, but not always,
early poll results are indicative of the eventual vote. I guess that must be true - otherwise early
results from polling election stations would be meaningless.

I didn't pay attention- but is the link to this poll set up like a FAQ ? It should be , if it is not.
Otherewise, over time it will drift out of sight !

Good idea, Mike Priwer

quote:

We can agree that if a gun belongs to someone, it's their decision what to do with it, at least up to the point of criminal fraud.

I agree.

However, I believe this question shows an endeavor that could easily turn into fraud down the line, after the owner is dead, either intentionally or unintentionally:

quote:

Question:
Expert restoration with factory style engraving.

Solution: Engravers should sign and date their work.

These two questions show endeavors that are outright fraud, and I see no good reason to EVER do them:

quote:

Question:
Expert restoration to factory "as new" condition, but changed to a more rare configuration (i.e., nickle instead of blue, rare barrel length, etc.)

Question:
Expert restoration with rare markings added -- i.e. police dept markings, military markings, old presentation inscription.

Solution: DON'T do it! If a gun is so rare that you stand so little chance of ever owning a legit one, and you simply can't get over it, I suggest you change your collecting direction. Go for commems or Beanie Babies! If one creates a rare gun, he defrauds himself today, and probably posterity later.

A comment on one more question:

quote:

Question:
Should restoration artists mark their work?

The REALLY great refinishers are, as I've already said, MORALLY obligated to mark their work, whether the owner desires it or not. It should not be the owner's option- "If we do the work, we make the mark" type of thing. Otherwise, the possibility of eventual fraud lies squarely on the shoulders of the artist.

Excellent poll.

Of course I was in the majority on every question and didn't look at the results before voting.

To many of you guys my opinion will mean little if anything at all, and I certianly understand that. My collection is quite small and of little value especially considering some of the collections must take a room sized vault or vaults. But none the less my collection is mine, it's all, actually more than I can afford and I'm proud of it. But I'm a pureist. My most conservativeness is in the area of antiques and old, collectable items. I have here in front of me a small medicine bottle that dates back to 1910. It is worth only a few dollars, probably less than $10 to a "I gotta have that bottle" collector, but it is absolutely in perfect condition, not a chip is missing. Incidentially, I picked it up on the parcel of ground that was used as the family garden 40+ years ago. The point is; I would rather have that old beat up S&W just as orginal as it can be. Make changes to it only if it makes it more orginal. A functional gun is great but if makeing it functional destroys the way it was made, then leave it unable to function. If the stocks are beat up but yet are numbered to the gun then leave them on the gun; to change them destroys the orginality of the piece. I have an old pot that sat in my great great great great grandmothers fireplace, not a stove. This pot sits on three little feet. One of these little bosses is nearly burned away. It would be an atrocity to take a torch and build up that foot. That's part of the OLD POT. One of my old model 10's is an LEO gun and it obviously was in some kind of fight to the death contest, it shows its battle scares. Mechanically it is in wonderful condition and deadly accurate. I could have it refinished, it would make a beautiful piece. It came with rubber stocks and I replace them using some well worn stocks of the correct period. No foul there as the orginals were already gone. It looks like it just came off of Officers Bill Fritz, Sam Brown Belt on the day of his retirement. That's the way it's gonna stay, as long at belongs to me. Jim I apologize for my long rambling post. It is an excellent poll and questions. Just my thoughts. Thank you. P.T.

Thanks for posting this very informative poll. It would be interesting to post it on Coltforum.com and compare results.

Jim:

Are you sure that you are not an accountant? Maybe, you spent some time as a bookkeeper in the family business, etc...?

As a bean counter, I love that someone has taken the initiative to quantify the feedback from some of the recent threads.

Thanks,

I have a early 50's vintage 22 Combat Masterpiece that must have been someones tacklebox gun as it was rusty and pitted. As I saw no harm, I spent several days at the buffing wheel and had Lee Shaver in Lamar, MO reblue it. It still is lightly pitted but looks 100 times better. It is now a pleasure to take on my evening walks around the farm. I believe that we do not own guns, we merely possess them while we are here on this earth. While I hope to pass it as well as my others on to my grandsons, I hope they look at it as something that they would be proud to own and not just "That old rusty gun that grandpa had".

I found it interesting as I have given a lot of thought on this over the years. Actually looking at the questions made me quantify my own opinions and actions on different firearms over the years. Thanks for the time you put into this.

This subject is alway's controversial. It can be extremely provocative. My impression, based upon the passionate discourse it typically provokes, is that it is much akin to discussions of politics or religion.

In the end though, my conclusion is that people will do as they wish. Ultimately though, a poll like this one should remain formatted like the FAQ pages, as Mike Priwer suggested. It will serve as a good reference for those pondering the subject or in fact considering undertaking a refinish, restorization or alteration/customization. If nothing else, it might help avoid some of the overzealous remarks of "for and against" that seem to sometimes spill into otherwise civil and interesting discussions of other subjects. I'm sure many of us have read or even participated in these, so you know where I'm coming from. I believe it is a valid subject for discussion but we should try to encourage tolerance for dissent and for those who may disagree with our own particular views on the subject. If I want to be aggravated, I can spend a week visiting my in laws. I don't have to come to the Forum to experience that!

Jim,

Great Poll. Interesting results.

The "restore/refinish/mod" debate reminds me of the same topic within my other area of interest - - - Corvettes.

- One group wants everything as it left the factory and trailers their cars everywhere.

- The others believe that the cars were meant to be driven and aren't too worried that the replacement part isn't OEM so long as it functions.

What both sides do agree with is that a FAKE is a FAKE...., Barrett Jackson auction "recreations" be damned.

That is why I don't have a problem with a well restored firearm - so long as I know that it isn't being passed off as something it never was or ANIB.

Thanks for participating & for the interesting comments!

Since this thread seems to be slowing down, I've posted a link to it in the FAQ section, as someone suggested, so it might be easily accessible in the future.

Jim

"a FAKE is a FAKE"???

Would that include S&Ws 'Heritage Series' revolvers?