Lee's comment was interesting and completely out of character for him. Unless, of course, he's familiar with the ones in question. Most folks say things like "they look like factory" or "they're good enough to be factory".

Judging from the checking on them, they're fairly old and look like antique (not necessarily 100 years old) elephant ivory. The yellowing comes from being out of sunlight. Thats why your momma left the piano keys open. The checking comes from years of drying out. Up to a point, both are very desireable because it shows age. (Unlike us old foggies, that wish we didn't show quite so much age.)

From the late 1800s thru the present, everyone that made gun accessories wanted to get in the business of making replacement grips. Early on, the factory promoted their products as superior. The way to tell that was the genuine factory medallions. As time went on, people just scavenged those and installed them in aftermarket products. It got to the point where you couldn't tell "superior" factory items from aftermarket. Then as the factory started producing inferior items (I offer up the 1970s excuse for walnut as wood for examples), sometimes aftermarket was better.

In my late 1930s and early 1940s Shooters Bibles, you could pick up a set of ivories for about $6. It wasn't rocket science to put in the medallions off your worn old grips.

quote:

Then as the factory started producing inferior items (I offer up the 1970s excuse for walnut as wood for examples), sometimes aftermarket was better.

Ain't that the truth!

Those are very nice stocks. I agree with the post suggesting that you buy a gun of correct era for the stocks.

quote:

Originally posted by Onomea:
Okay, Lee, I believe you!

Now, could you tell us why you know that to be the case? I always appreciate the opportunity to learn more from the more experienced among us!

Guys,
I have to pack and ship more stuff today than a good mule could carry- I'll be lucky to get it done, and I hate to fall away from the "next-day" shipping I have always adhered to. So, no way I can get to the pics and scans it will take to support my opinion, but I PROMISE I'll be back with it, God-willing.

Hot dawg! I love a mystery, with suspense and all! Sure, take your time with the customers Lee -- they come first -- and we'll be waiting for your update when you can get to it.

(Reminds me of the old chestnut, "How do you keep a turkey in suspense?" Answer: "I'll tell ya later!" )

The three thing I see that say factory are the escutcheons, the medallion edges are flush with the ivory, if they were taken out of another set of grips it is very hard to find a set that matches the dishing, and the last is the edge of the round part at the top and corners are beveled. These are all factory details that are rarely copied.

Tim

quote:

Originally posted by Timb1:
The three thing I see that say factory are the escutcheons, the medallion edges are flush with the ivory, if they were taken out of another set of grips it is very hard to find a set that matches the dishing, and the last is the edge of the round part at the top and corners are beveled. These are all factory details that are rarely copied.

Tim

Excellent points, my friend.

First, let's establish a fact or two about Gold medallions, and Pearl and Ivory- to wit: the normal time frame of 1909 or 10 to 1919 or 20 does NOT apply to pearl and ivory stocks. If you open Neal & Jinks (we DO all have Neal & Jinks by now, DON'T WE?) to the chapter on engraving, you can look at guns engraved for the Columbian Exposition in 1893 wearing pearls with gold medallions. I have held a New Model #3 that shipped in the 1880's with Ivories that have gold medallions. It letters with them, and they are fitted so well, they HAD to be polished with the frame. Incidentally, they cost, as I recall, $1.50!

Here is a box for a Model 1899 HE 32/20, ser# 4723. This sticker is glued in the bottom. I have seen the same sticker in pre 1900 top-break boxes. Notice the gold medallions on the pearls?

Next, pages from the 1905 catalog: Notice it talks about pearl and ivory, and they all have recessed gold med's.
I have this gun. The ivories on it are factory. I don't have a letter yet, but these grips were polished on this frame, and the blue is original.


Dick said:

quote:

Lee's comment was interesting and completely out of character for him. Unless, of course, he's familiar with the ones in question. Most folks say things like "they look like factory" or "they're good enough to be factory".

So, there are two reasons I would make that statement like that: I was pressed for time and don't type well, and I have handled a good many pairs of factory ivories, and they ALL look like those. As Tim pointed out, they all have the same bevels and angles, the medallions often show buffing with the grip contour which would not be there with drop-ins, and I have NEVER seen a pair of VINTAGE aftermarket ivories with S&W escutcheons. All the factories I have examined have the studs finished the same way, and the precise pin holes normal for S&W.
So, if it has feathers, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck.

Those are factory grips.

Lee,
Thanks for a well-researched, historically-sound explanation.
Like The Monkees sang, 'I'm a Believer'.
Don

Lee, thanks for contributing your wealth of knowledge to this subject!

Not only is Lee a wealth of info and a great guy, he and I were around when this stuff was new.

quote:

Originally posted by Olddave:
Not only is Lee a wealth of info and a great guy, he and I were around when this stuff was new.

That's cold, Dave, cold. Aren't you my Daddy's age?
Speaking of age, where are the REALLY old dudes that know about all this stuff? David? Mike? Ed?

Lee;

Your opinion seems to be well based, both on levels of fact and experience. I have to agree they probably are factory.

I again, am truely amazed and grateful for the knowledge and opinions so freely shared. Thank all of you so much, not only for the information, but for the true enjoyment I get from learning, collecting, trading, buying, selling, and comradery on this forum.

Lonnie