Mike:
Hard to argue with your logic.
I seem to remember someone on this forum keeping a log of those earliest M&Ps but can't remember who it is. With Joe Miller's files on target versions, it would be interesting to pair those numbers with the M&P numbers to see how close the target numbers are to 10%.
Ed

Ed

Its not an apples to apples comparison. Joe only has target survivors,
but no M&P survivor numbers. So, it would be comparing target survivors
to M&P production.

What comes out of Joes data is the very very few 1899 targets. Worse,
I owned most of those at one time, and reported those to Joe.

The survival data does not support a 10% assumption, but that is what I
have been told. To me, judging by what shows up at the big-name auction
houses, I doubt there is more than 150 1899 targets in collectors hands.
And even that is probably too high - maybe its more like 100.

Later, Mike

Hey Mike,
If that is so with the 38, then the 32-20 that only had 5,311 made in 1899 would make it less than 100 in collector hands.

Later John

John

I would agree with that 100%.

Its curious how numbers work out. At the peak of my collection, I owned
12 1899 targets, and 12 1902 targets - 4 early ones, and 8 1ST changes. These
were all in .38 caliber. In 32/20, I owned 3 1899's and only 1 1902 , and that
was all that I ever saw offered for sale, over a 20 year period.

There were about 21000 .38s, and as you point out, about 5300 in 32/20 caliber.
That is a ratio of about 4 to one - roughly, and that is exactly the ratio
of what I owned ! This for the model of 1899.

As luck would have it, among the 12 1899 .38's , I had 5 different barrel lengths
in blue, and 4 in nickel. That is almost the perfect collection. The 32/20's I
had were one 5", and two 6 1/2", with probably 90% finish collectively among
all of them ! So, I sold off the extra .38 6.5" guns, as they really were extras.
I sold all the 32/20's ( serial 741,747, 3177, and 6406 ), figuring that I never
would find any other barrel lengths. Since then, that is exactly what has happened !

I doubt there was even 100 1899 32/20 targets made. The gun was intended as a
companion gun to the rifle, and presumably for that purpose, would have been
carried in a holster, or from what mine looked like, rattling around in the back
of a pickup truck ! Either way, target sights would have been a hinderance.
And, 32/20 was not a favored shooting-competition caliber, particularly in the
1899 to 1905 era.

Lee Jarrett had 3197 for sale for what seemed like several months. It's (another)
5", and from his description, had little to no finish left. A perfect companion
to mine !

Given all of this, I guess the last question is : Are 1899 32/20 targets
rare, or just scarce ? I have my own views about this, which are reinforced by
the time (not all that long) it took for Lee's gun to sell. I once saw a pair
of Ideal shoulder stock adapter plates for sale ( they go under the grips ) on
a gun, and they were described as rare. Ray Brazille commmented that the only
thing rarer than Ideal stock plates was a collector who was interested !

By the way, how long have you had your 32/20 1899 target ? It looks like 5" ?

Later, Mike Priwer

Hey Mike,
This is the one that Lee had that I am buying from him. I'm like you in a way, I like the target model. I have five of them, and growing. Later John

Deleted until further researched.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Coug45,

quote:

Originally posted by mikepriwer:
Mike

Here are the pictures. The gun is a 1902 1st change - notice the shoulder on the barrel.















Whats with the grips ?!

Later, Mike Priwer

Anyone have a pair of correct BR grips for this gun? I just lettered it and it shipped with the BR grips.Gun is NOT mint, so I do not need new grips. Thanks,Mike