In these threads there is often an inclination to underestimate criminals. We rightly feel superior to them on a moral level ('cause they have none). However, on a fighting level, consider that many criminals:

1. Have the "nothing to lose" mentality lest no hesitation--will you hesitate?.
2. Will always have at least a little jump on you as the initiator of action.
3. Have probably been in more physically violent encounters than you have.
4. May well have already fired a weapon at someone or been fired at themselves--in other words they may have at least some level of actual gunfighting experience that you do not have.
5. May be intoxicated, thereby further reducing their fear factor.
6. Will probably have a more aggressive nature than you do; that's why they are willing to mix it up with you. Don't forget Col. Cooper's admonitions on the value of aggression in a fight.

There are some pretty tough dudes on this forum--LEO's, ex-military, etc., and a few just downright ornery cusses from deep in the woods or swamps. While these types can surely hold their own against any bad guy, a lot of us here are accountants, computer jockeys and mild-mannered suburbanites who would underestimate criminals at our own peril.

quote:

there is often an inclination to underestimate criminals

And among criminals, there a like inclination to underestimate some potential victims. Fatal mistake.

1. Will I hesitate? Try me.
2. A common stereotype--White Men Can't Jump.
3. He thinks it's a physically violent encounter. I know it's a killing in progress. Knowledge is power.
4. If he's been shot already, he's a slow learner.
5. He's intoxicated. I'm not.
6. Also heed Rex Applegate in Combat Use Of The Double Edged Fighting Knife.

quote:

Originally posted by casingpoint:
A common stereotype--White Men Can't Jump.

Evil Knievel blew that one out of the water.

I too believe it's a mistake to misunderestimate the enemy.

Maybe the fanny pack screams gun. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it gets you shot first.

Waingro's out there somewhere.

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I read lots of comments on fanny packs and most say "it screams GUN"!

Actually, it screams "Girly Man". I would'nt be caught wearing one of these...It attracts everyone's attention let alone a BG.
You can list too many reasons why not to carry in an external fashion...

quote:

Originally posted by flop-shank:

quote:

Originally posted by casingpoint:
A common stereotype--White Men Can't Jump.

Evil Knievel blew that one out of the water.

The jumping part wasn't a problem for Mr. Knievel that's for sure, it was the landings that were such a bummer.

Smitty

quote:

Originally posted by Smitty500Mag:

quote:

Originally posted by flop-shank:

quote:

Originally posted by casingpoint:
A common stereotype--White Men Can't Jump.

Evil Knievel blew that one out of the water.

The jumping part wasn't a problem for Mr. Knievel that's for sure, it was the landings that were such a bummer.

Smitty

Landings were Neil Armstrong's department.

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Ever heard of the second amendment? In the Free state of Virginia suits are being won aginst illegal detentions like you are advocating. Stopped and questioned for what?

I don't think you get it.

The 2nd amendment doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

In most states you have a RIGHT to own a gun NOT to carry it. Period.

That is likely what the Supreme court will rule by the way!

BECAUSE you have a drivers license you do not have a right to drive you have the privelege and it could be revoked. Just like your right to carry.

My broker is in law enforcement and he owns a ton of guns. However, over the last 20 years he has move to the opinion that it is better for the police to have guns and fewer non police to have him. His opinion is that most police feel that way too when on duty.

If an officer feels you are a threat to him or others you have no 2nd amendment rights.

Get real if you applied for a pistol permit to carry YOU already signed away your 2nd amendment rights by agreeing to the terms. You have the right to own a gun at the allowance of your state an federal laws.

quote:

Originally posted by Practical:

quote:

Ever heard of the second amendment? In the Free state of Virginia suits are being won aginst illegal detentions like you are advocating. Stopped and questioned for what?

I don't think you get it.

The 2nd amendment doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

In most states you have a RIGHT to own a gun NOT to carry it. Period.

That is likely what the Supreme court will rule by the way!

BECAUSE you have a drivers license you do not have a right to drive you have the privelege and it could be revoked. Just like your right to carry.

My broker is in law enforcement and he owns a ton of guns. However, over the last 20 years he has move to the opinion that it is better for the police to have guns and fewer non police to have him. His opinion is that most police feel that way too when on duty.

If an officer feels you are a threat to him or others you have no 2nd amendment rights.

Get real if you applied for a pistol permit to carry YOU already signed away your 2nd amendment rights by agreeing to the terms. You have the right to own a gun at the allowance of your state an federal laws.

How does the grass taste? Troll.

quote:

Originally posted by Practical:

quote:

Ever heard of the second amendment? In the Free state of Virginia suits are being won aginst illegal detentions like you are advocating. Stopped and questioned for what?

I don't think you get it.

The 2nd amendment doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

In most states you have a RIGHT to own a gun NOT to carry it. Period.

That is likely what the Supreme court will rule by the way!

BECAUSE you have a drivers license you do not have a right to drive you have the privelege and it could be revoked. Just like your right to carry.

My broker is in law enforcement and he owns a ton of guns. However, over the last 20 years he has move to the opinion that it is better for the police to have guns and fewer non police to have him. His opinion is that most police feel that way too when on duty.

If an officer feels you are a threat to him or others you have no 2nd amendment rights.

Get real if you applied for a pistol permit to carry YOU already signed away your 2nd amendment rights by agreeing to the terms. You have the right to own a gun at the allowance of your state an federal laws.

Actaully, in most states there is a wording in the state constitution to the effect that there is a right to "bear" arms. What does mean? It means that there is a right to own arms and to *carry them openly*. It is only the concealing of weapons that falls under the purview of states to regulate as a reasonable police power of the state.

In the example given of VA, John was quite correct. Individuals carrying openly in VA who were stopped by police for not other reason than openly carrying do have law suits pending. In VA nothing about having a permit to carry a concealed weapon in any way alters a person's right to carry a firearm (or other weapon) openly.

The Supremes also decided a long time ago that one has their rights whether they want them or not. A person can't actually sign their rights away in most cases.

I am not a troll, I am pragmatic.

Our rights are being continuously whittled away such that they may exist but they are harder and harder to exercise.

One can sign away their rights at any time. Or your representative can sign them away.

When you get an FFL or a C&R license you allow for the BATFE to inspect or search you home.

When you accept the terms of a drivers license you agree to abide by the rules of road or lose it. What happens if the terms require you to have an On-Star system or remote monitoring of your vehicle. Or a remote kill switch? I have been on security standards committees and reviewed standards for alarm systems both for buildings and cars. Car alarms will include a remote kill switch for on-star like systems at the behest of our government as well as the means for remote listening to conversation in vehicle. These standards are in process now.

Our elected representatives CAN and DO negotiate away our rights.

Look what happenned in California's Assault weapon ban. If I am reading it correctly you can have pre-ban magazines but once the original owner dies, the magazines CANNOT be willed to the heirs or sold within the state.

They must be destroyed turned in or removed from California.

In 75 years there will be NO privately owned asault weapons or hi-capacity magazines. Those owners in Cali have their 2nd amendment rights and were not deprived of property. JUST THE RIGHT TO TRANSFER IT. Their kids where not deprived their rights either, they just have to buy their own STATE allowed guns.

NO ONES PROPERTY or 2nd amendment rights were taken away. BUT the right to dispose and transfer property was restricted. Thus, the heirs and next generations have NO legal means to acquire their parents guns.

What will happen when Smart Guns appear? Do you think they might try this again with the old guns.

I am not a troll nor a fool. Little by little our rights are eroded until the don't matter.

The Soviet Union and current day China have great constitutions. It's just that you can't enforce your rights there. NPR did a story about a family in china who tried after having their land taken away and about an activist for human rights. He spent 5 years in jail for simply making documentaries.

For Mr. Practical:
It would be easy to throw insults at you, especially after the slap you gave to the 2nd Ammendment, on this pro-gun site; but after reading some of your prior posts, I'll let it slid.
A few "Facts" that contradict your above statement.
1. If your "Broker" is into law enforcement then he must be selling to P.O.'s and not wearing a Badge. most cops do not feel that ,"the opinion that it is better for the police to have guns and fewer non police to have him. His opinion is that most police feel that way too when on duty.".That statement from him is made up B/S.I just finished 25 years on the street and at least twice a month I will hear my fellow cops state, "more good people should be trained with and packing guns." We all assume that everyone is anyway, here in Miami-Dade. If your "Broker" is carrying a badge, then he is one of our "ROD'S" that is not worth a damn at his job "Police Work" and dreams of being Donald Trump. We have a few of them. "Paper Lions" we call them.
2. Soviet Union and China great constitutions ??!! Are You High ?, There is a reason why it is no longer reffered to as the Soviet Union. Try Russia, son. Have you ever visited there, or just read their constitution on-line? I've visited there.
3. Using California as a standard to support any arguement on guns! Hell, they can't even agree if they want like gay marriages. Are you a lawyer? Please say, "Yes". It would explain alot about you.
4. The day you feel our(YOUR) rights don't matter, especially the 2nd Ammendment, that means you have given up, So just go join the Huffington Post.
5. Before you leave us, please cut a check to the NRA for the rest of us still in the fight.

Bubba1

A government may deny someone their civil rights, but governments can't change the fact that they exist. Rights come from God not politicians. BTW, I don't give a crap what California's idiot government thinks about anything.

I've used fanny packs for years, mostly in the summer. And I wear a leather vest as a cover garment in the winter months. I regularly eat lunch at a restaurant that's heavily patronized by LE personnel of many jurisdictions. I think there's a training facility nearby. I've NEVER had a cross-eyed look from anyone there. It could be because I haven't been self conscious about carrying for years, and I am not openly scanning the room. I usually sit in a corner booth in the back and mind my own business.

Anyone who thinks that people are "making" him constantly is either unconsciously doing something to attract attention or has mild paranoia. Quit patting the gun or rubbing your arm over it. It's not going anywhere. Don't rubberneck. Relax. Don't be afraid to make eye contact and walk erect. Mopes look for the weak and stupid ones, and will bypass anyone who looks like he will resist them. There are plenty of easy marks for them to prey upon. They won't take the chance of possibly picking an off duty cop or a retired one.

Those who think that a fanny pack is effeminate need to examine their own inadequacies. Men with secure sexual identities don't worry about such silliness.

quote:

More seriously, a gun that is seen (or the presence of which is easily inferred) also risks drawing the attention of someone who hopes to "snatch" a gun. There are gun snatch attempts that take place directed at uniformed and obviously armed police officers, so the presumed deterrence factor doesn't always work.

BGs are not looking for guys with guns to rob. They are looking for vulnerable targets with valuables. Well dressed and helpless.
If you looked armed, they will probably let you pass and look for a safer target. They don't get many of their guns from violent roberies, they buy them cheaply off the streets from the guy that robbed your house whil you were at work. No, not many from the gunshow loophole, whatever that is. Police officers find themselves in a struggle for their weapons when they stop someone for a minor thing and the BG realizes he is going down for a MAJOR crime that the officer doesn't know about yet. So HE is desperate and the officer is not expecting such a response. Since 22 states have adopted CC, violent crime against individuals has gone drastically down in those states and property crime has gone up.
I believe, if we all OC, violent public assault would be virtually nonexistent and we would have a much more polite society. Ace