I found this on a Florida gun shop website and was actually slightly encouraged by what I read.

"If anyone cares, the serial number range on this F.I.E. Titan model E27B .25 Auto pistol is 245,000 range, made, by our poor memory, some time in the late 1970s or early 1980s. Our late 1960s and early 1970s records show a transition from five to six digit numbers in the late 1960s, so this one was probably made in the late 1970s or early 1980s, before the onslaught of the vastly inferior Ravens, Jenningses, and their descendants, the pot-metal High Point firearms. The Titans and identical Targas, marketed by Eig Cutlery descendant Excam company, are actually pretty good little guns, simply made and easy to disassemble and maintain. Despite the pot-metal frames on these .25s, the slide and other parts are mostly milled steel, and they are real guns, unlike the current crop of pot metal and polymer that our market is now awash with. The only design flaw to this pistol is that its safety operates in a manner reverse to normal; in order to fire it, a person has to shift his grip slightly to operate it with his right thumb. This Titan .25’s frame finish is down to a matte gray, with its plating worn off; but the blue slide and barrel have 70 to 80 percent of their surface finish intact, and the hammer’s chrome is fully intact. Mechanism is Very Good, and the bore and chamber are clean. Rifling has a rippled effect, but these are not known for pin-point accuracy anyway. Own this good solid little Carter-era .25 Auto."

This Titan was one that they had on sale for $99.00. The Excam that I am bidding on appears to be in much better condidtion. If it has problems, I found a place on line where I can obtain needed spare parts.

Scott

quote:

Ever have to actually use a gun to protect yourself? Believe me, there simply is no such thing as "too much gun". Of course a .25 is better than no gun at all...

Depending on some not-so-unlikely variables, a loud, piercing scream might be better than a junk piece .25 auto......

quote:

"If anyone cares, the serial number range on this F.I.E. Titan model E27B .25 Auto pistol is 245,000 range, made, by our poor memory, some time in the late 1970s or early 1980s. Our late 1960s and early 1970s records show a transition from five to six digit numbers in the late 1960s, so this one was probably made in the late 1970s or early 1980s, before the onslaught of the vastly inferior Ravens, Jenningses, and their descendants, the pot-metal High Point firearms. The Titans and identical Targas, marketed by Eig Cutlery descendant Excam company, are actually pretty good little guns, simply made and easy to disassemble and maintain. Despite the pot-metal frames on these .25s, the slide and other parts are mostly milled steel, and they are real guns, unlike the current crop of pot metal and polymer that our market is now awash with. The only design flaw to this pistol is that its safety operates in a manner reverse to normal; in order to fire it, a person has to shift his grip slightly to operate it with his right thumb. This Titan .25’s frame finish is down to a matte gray, with its plating worn off; but the blue slide and barrel have 70 to 80 percent of their surface finish intact, and the hammer’s chrome is fully intact. Mechanism is Very Good, and the bore and chamber are clean. Rifling has a rippled effect, but these are not known for pin-point accuracy anyway. Own this good solid little Carter-era .25 Auto."

Are you sure they weren't trying to be funny, like the guy who sold his ex-wife's wedding dress on ebay?

They seem quite serious. I saw the pictures that they had accompanying this narrative, and the depiction was accurate.

Scott

This came from the Pro-gun forum:

"The Inevitable Tests

Bo and I spent a pleasant afternoon testing the .25 ACP and the .22 Long Rifle in a pair of Berettas he has. These two pistols have barrels of the same length. Below find data from this afternoons tests along with some additional .25 ACP data including handloads.
The two Beretta pistols used in testing.

.25 ACP Factory loads

Remington 51 grain FMJ, MV 789 fps, ME 71 ft./lbs.
Winchester 50 grain FMJ, MV 852 fps, ME 82 ft./lbs.*
Hornady XTP 35 grain hollowpoint MV 1004 fps, ME 78*

.25 ACP Handloads

Remington 51 grain bullet, 1.6 grains Unique, MV 853 fps, ME 82 ft./lbs.
Remington 51 grain bullet, 1.2 grains Bullseye, 728 fps, ME 60 ft./lbs.
Rem. 51 grain bullet, (can't tell-it's a secret) Unique, MV 933 fps, ME 99 ft./lbs.



Selected .22 Long Rifle cartridges fired from a Beretta Model 21A

Remington high-velocity copper plated 40 grain solid (Golden Bullet)*
MV 842 fps, ME 63 ft./lbs.

Remington high-velocity lead 36 grain hollow point*
MV 865 fps, ME 60 ft./lbs.

Winchester high-velocity lead 40 grain solid*
MV 854 fps, ME 65 ft./lbs.

Winchester high-velocity copper plated 36 grain hollow point*
MV 894 fps, ME 64 ft./lbs

A Colt Model 1908 and a Oehler Model 12 chronograph were used except (*) in which a Beretta Model 950 B .25 ACP and a Beretta Model 21A .22 Long Rifle were tested over a Chrony chronograph. Coincidentally, the Winchester factory 50 grain load checked out identically when fired from both the Colt and the Beretta and the Unique handload was only one foot per second faster.


When considering the midget automatics I'd prefer the .25 ACP to the .22 Long Rife though the difference is so minuscule as to be pointless. The .25 ACP feeds more reliably, the heavier and slightly larger .25 bullet shows equivalent velocities, and the fully jacketed design should deform less and offer more penetration."

This is an 'apples-to-apples' comparison. Make no mistake about it, neither are powerhouses, but the .25 ACP has the edge in raw power and reliability. Here's hoping that the .25 I am buying will have a good bore and serves me well.

Scott

Good thread !
My S&W 317, 10 oz, bobbed hammer, CCI QuikShok ammo is my 'answer the door' gun.
5.25" Gelatin penetration, Average radial segment dispersion in gel = 3.25"...



Marshal & Sanow rate the QS at 40% 'one shot stop' from a rifle. I calculated 28%, using the Fuller Index at 1080fps (chronograph @ 5' from my 2' 317). .25acp is 25%.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ol' M&P,

quote:

Originally posted by guy sajer:

quote:

Originally posted by gunfan:
I am looking at a .25 that I can pick up for a "song."
Scott

re: Excam
Recommend you test fire 25 rds or so before committing .

You have THAT right! IMHO, The "acid test" will be at least 50 rounds through the piece WITHOUT a jam! This is an absolute must before it is pressed into any duty role! While the round may be underpowered, the pistol must be reliable. If it can't be made reliable I will not use it where any risk is involved.

Scott

I've always thought of the .25 as a good one foot gun. If attacked, you shoot them in one foot. While they are hopping around on the other one foot, you can use BOTH of your feet to put a lot of yardage between you and them.

Gunfan,

You seem to have asked this question looking for answers to justify what you already planned on doing in my not so humble opinion. If that's not the case, sorry, I apologize.

When I'm deciding on what to carry, I use the "see for myself test". I've seen lots of people shot over the years with all kinds of diameter and veolicty rounds and based on what I saw, a .25 is not a gun I'd consider for self-defense no matter how convenient the size of the gun is. If that junk piece .25 is the limit of your convenience and price range, you can also carry something better just as conveniently and afffordably. Take this advice for what you paid for it.......

quote:

Originally posted by boomstick:
Gunfan,

You seem to have asked this question looking for answers to justify what you already planned on doing in my not so humble opinion. If that's not the case, sorry, I apologize.

When I'm deciding on what to carry, I use the "see for myself test". I've seen lots of people shot over the years with all kinds of diameter and veolicty rounds and based on what I saw, a .25 is not a gun I'd consider for self-defense no matter how convenient the size of the gun is. If that junk piece .25 is the limit of your convenience and price range, you can also carry something better just as conveniently and afffordably. Take this advice for what you paid for it.......

Thank you. I appreciate what you have had to say. I am hoping that the Beretta Tomcat that I have will serve me better than the little Excam. I have already had second thoughts about using the little .25. I prefer to use the .32 ACP cartridge as a "last-ditch gun for the summertime." Perhaps I'll just stick to using the little piece for dispatching small animals and the like. When using ball ammunition, the Tomcat doesn't jam. Perhaps the 100-110 fpe that the Beretta generates will be my best bet in a "light gun" situation.

I have a neighbor that I prefer to avoid, if I can. The man is an alcoholic that gets stoned on weed quite a bit. The last time we had a confrontation, I did the wise thing. I called the police. It is their job to handle situations like that, not mine. The last time he started poking me in the chest with his finger. For that, I could have had him arrested, but I didn't. The next time, I'll let the local PD take him away for the night. Assault IV isn't much of a charge, but perhaps it will make him rethink his actions. No one wants anything to erupt into bloodshed, but an aclcohol-fueled temper may cause him to spill over into ill-considered violence. I want to be ready for just such a contingency. I am not anyone's "puching bag" and refuse to let a drunk get away with physical abuse. I refuse to be a victim.

Scott

I really think that if I was mostly looking for the smallest gun I could find, I would go with one of the NAA mini-mag rev's.

The .22mag out of a 1 5/8" Bbl. is only apx 189-246 fps faster* (depending on wt. of projectile & brand of ammo) then a .22LR. But what the heck faster is faster, and the cost diff don't matter much. (it's not a range gun anyway)

I'll admit, the above is my "answer the door at night gun" And altho I would never consider it primary protection. It's proved 100% reliable. And about as small as you can get.

* Vel. figures from NAA website

Jay, CCI maxi-mag +Vs seem to get better velocity than any other .22 magnum in online research that I've done. If you do a search, I started a thread about my Perma-gel shooting results that might be of interest to you. Like you, I'm fond of NAA's guns too. I do, however, answer the door with something a little bigger.

quote:

.25 Auto that can slip into my pants pocket while I'm doing everyday chores such as, taking out the trash, walking around the outside of the apartment complex for a couple of minutes, etc.

At least you are armed...In similar scenarios, many leave their piece in the house/apt until they go to Wally World...

flop-shank:

From what I've read the CCI maxi-mag +v's do indeed give the highest vel.

But I decided to go with Winchester super X, for the following reasons.

Since it's pretty much a sure thing no .22mag is going to develop enough vel. to expand (comeing out of a 1 5/8" Bbl.) I want to go for penetration. Which I think you'll get more of with the 40gr. FMJ Winchester. which also looks like it may well tumble on impact.(a fringe bennie)

But either one will most likely take at least two shots to stop a chargeing water buffalo

Well, I have been outbid twice to date. Perhaps I should just give up.

Scott

Buy the .25 Auto because -
- it is cute
- it is mechanically interesting
- it easily carried

Here is how a .25 can help you in a self defense situation:
1) You are down to a 1/4 tank of gas and need to fill up. You notice burglar bars and plexiglass surround the gas station attendant. You decide to find a gas station in a better neighborhood because you only have a .25-caliber pistol.
2) You are lingering over the beef jerky at your favorite convenience store and 4 male minority group members between the age of 16-24 walk in. You leave immediately without buying anything because you only have a .25-caliber pistol.
3) It's 10 p.m. and you realize you are out of bagels for breakfast tommorrow and want to pop out to the grocery store, but you stay home because you only have a .25-caliber pistol.
4) You are standing in line at a grocery store and the biggest, baddest, 400-pound redneck you've ever seen smacks his wife across the face right in front of you. You leave and call the cops because you only have a .25-caliber pistol.

See the .25-caliber pistol can be an excellent judgement enhancer. No fuss. No muss. No lawyers and no bloody mess.