quote:

Originally posted by orangehole:
I am sorry but I feel the 1911 is a poor choice for a carry pistol unless you have so much training that clicking your safety off becomes instinctual. That split second you might need your pistol and you miss that safety could be your life. I have read stories of even experienced shooters missing their safety. Go DAO. Keep it simple. Draw and pull the trigger.

I was on the same search and I think I have come to the conclusion that my Performance center 640-1 357mag in Matt Del Fatti leather is 99% perfect!

Interesting that you found "stories" of shooters missing the safety of their semi-auto handgun in defensive situations. Massad Ayoob has researched hundreds of both police and civilian shootings and the last word I read of his on the subject is that he has NEVER documented such a situation. Maybe there is some new information that has been brought to light that I am not aware of, if so, and you have documented information of such a situation please give some links for me to research. I am interested in your results.

quote:

Originally posted by OCD1:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Foot:
Well, let me tell you how this works. During the first year, you are packing a heavy, large caliber like a full-size .45 or L-frame 686. Then you start thinking, wow, all this agony and you start to experiment with all types of carry: to no avail..When it's all said done, you are carrying the lightest gun that will slide in your pocket...
Yeah, I've heard the Clint Smith "comforting not blah, blah, blah....

+1 on that. Well said.
Being in hot, humid Florida limits me to pretty much pocket carry. Alternate between J frame 38, Kahr PM9, Seecanp 32, NAA 380. No worry about dressing to fit my gun, belts for holsters etc. A 32 in my pocket is better than blah blah.

I like my blah blah blah and carry it when I'm not at work. To each their own, but absolutely saying that after the first year a carrier is going to only pack rat or mouse guns is not true. Several of us here on this board (and else where) carry big full size guns, and yes I do so in 100 degree weather too. I have self imposed rules that I live by, and one is that I carry as much gun as possible. I know I'm not the only one.

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My latest carry gun is a 625 Mt. Gun in .45 Colt. I've been packing it pretty steadily when I'm away from work lately in an O'Rourke Leather hi-rise pancake holster, and I like it...

Moonshine44 we must be cut from the same cloth. I carry the same gun, in the same holster, and have for the last 3 years. Ask John to get you a dump pouch for an extra six and your set.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Foot:
Well, let me tell you how this works. During the first year, you are packing a heavy, large caliber like a full-size .45 or L-frame 686. Then you start thinking, wow, all this agony and you start to experiment with all types of carry: to no avail..Along the way, you accumulate all styles/types of holsters for your "boxful of worthless holsters". When it's all said done, you are carrying the lightest gun that will slide in your pocket...
Yeah, I've heard the Clint Smith "comforting not blah, blah, blah....

I've been doing this for a few years now. I have accumulated the "box 'o holsters" as I think most of us have. I didn't follow your progression though.

The first gun that I bought after receiving my CCW was the Glock 36 and that was followed closely by a Smith 642. While I'd like to carry a larger gun, I gave into the practicality of lighter weight at a very early stage.

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Originally posted by GC:

quote:

Originally posted by orangehole:
I am sorry but I feel the 1911 is a poor choice for a carry pistol unless you have so much training that clicking your safety off becomes instinctual. That split second you might need your pistol and you miss that safety could be your life. I have read stories of even experienced shooters missing their safety. Go DAO. Keep it simple. Draw and pull the trigger.

I was on the same search and I think I have come to the conclusion that my Performance center 640-1 357mag in Matt Del Fatti leather is 99% perfect!

Interesting that you found "stories" of shooters missing the safety of their semi-auto handgun in defensive situations. Massad Ayoob has researched hundreds of both police and civilian shootings and the last word I read of his on the subject is that he has NEVER documented such a situation. Maybe there is some new information that has been brought to light that I am not aware of, if so, and you have documented information of such a situation please give some links for me to research. I am interested in your results.

...he is correct. Unless you 100% train and carry only with a pistol that has a manual safety the chances of not "missing" but simply forgetting the safety is even there are very high.

Example..Dallas, Texas mid 1970s... A robbery squad officer is hiding in the cooler at a 7-11. Robber comes in and has gun on the clerk. Officer steps out of the cooler to take the shot...robber turns and kills the officer. The clerk told the investigators he saw the officer pull the trigger THREE TIMES before the robber turned and killed him...the 1911 was found next to the officer with the safety still on. He had learned on a revolver, trained with a revolver, qualified with a revolver and had only recently qualified and started carrying a 1911.

Next, one of the instructors who I teach with and helps run the Survivor Series scenerio shoots. He has been helping put on the shoots since 1995 and started carrying a few years before that so he is no newby when it comes to defensive shooting. He started off with a S&W M19 and a 642, went over to a Glock 40 S&W then about three years ago over to a Commander. He was shooting one of the scenarios when he poped up over cover to take out a moving bad guy...he had timed it just right and had a clear shot...but he never pulled the trigger and the BG was lost from view. I asked him later what had happpened...forgot to take the safety off...he took my advise and is now carrying a DA semi.

He is not the only one I have seen do the exact same thing when under pressure. It isn't missing the safety physically..it is mentally missing it. Reguardless of what manually operated safety gun you carry, 1911, BHP, CZ52, anything cocked and locked...DON'T PRACTICE COMBAT SHOOTING WITH ANYTHING ELSE.

As to carrying a MouseGun or a RAT (oversized Mouse better know as a Snibbie) you'll be just as comfortable as can be until the day you really need a gun...if you survive you will never carry it again.

Bob Makowski

I've tried snub J's, K's, L's, 1911's, BHP, Kahrs. The snub K's worked best of the bunch, for combined comfort and shootability, until I ran into the CZ Rami compact 9 mmm. Fat but light, with ten or 14 round mags and an excellent trigger - concealable and easy to shoot well.

One of my leo friends just got the ruger lcp and offered to ppt it to me. FANTASTIC little gun for a .380 To bad it's not on the doj list here in Commifornia. I think I will take him up on buying it from him.

2000z, whatever gun you end up with, please do consider getting an lcp. I'm not a mousegun fan, but damn that little thing is concealable and fun to shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by orangehole:
I am sorry but I feel the 1911 is a poor choice for a carry pistol unless you have so much training that clicking your safety off becomes instinctual.

I keep hearing this BS as if training oneself to quickly deploy a 1911 was harder than launching the Space Shuttle.

A couple of hours of dry firing practice from the holster a week for a couple of weeks is all one needs. This is no more difficult than learning to engage the safety on an AR when coming off target and automatically flipping it off as you come on target.

Non-issue.

quote:

Originally posted by flop-shank:
I like my blah blah blah and carry it when I'm not at work. To each their own, but absolutely saying that after the first year a carrier is going to only pack rat or mouse guns is not true. Several of us here on this board (and else where) carry big full size guns, and yes I do so in 100 degree weather too. I have self imposed rules that I live by, and one is that I carry as much gun as possible. I know I'm not the only one.

When I bought my CDP, I walked into the gunshop and said something along the lines of walking into the shop where I'd gotten my 337 and saying, "I need a bigger carry gun". This was cause for notice, as I was told that no one had ever asked that before, only for smaller. The Kimber had been sold and changed hands within in two weeks, traded for a G27 as it was "too big". It wasn't too big for me and was my top tier primary until I sold it in late 2006.

Shrug. I'm a homemaker. It gets dangerous during double coupon events.

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Originally posted by Wyatt Earp:
I keep hearing this BS as if training oneself to quickly deploy a 1911 was harder than launching the Space Shuttle.

A couple of hours of dry firing practice from the holster a week for a couple of weeks is all one needs.

Non-issue.

That was my experience as well. (Though I'd owned a Gold Cup prior to my Kimber.) It took a relatively short period for manipulation of the safety of the 1911 to become instinctive.

While I have, and sometimes carry both larger and smaller guns as primaries, I keep drifting back to my little 9x23 Kimber Aegis, which is identical in size to the Ultra CDP. Lots of horsepower, 9 rounds on board, and very, very concealable. Problem is, if I strap on a Glock or a revolver, I keep thumbing off the safety...

quote:

Originally posted by 38-44HD45:
While I have, and sometimes carry both larger and smaller guns as primaries, I keep drifting back to my little 9x23 Kimber Aegis, which is identical in size to the Ultra CDP. Lots of horsepower, 9 rounds on board, and very, very concealable. Problem is, if I strap on a Glock or a revolver, I keep thumbing off the safety...

You laugh...I have seen 1911 shooters do the same thing when they switch guns...and what has happened is they hesitate, take their eyes off the target and look at the gun to see what's wrong...then comes the "...oh $hit" and they pull the trigger.

I love that "little" 9x23 of yours. Have thought about getting a 9x23 barrel for my Commander so it runs like XTroopers...not sure if the extra 80-100 fps is worth the extra muzzleblast.

Bob

I'm getting 1370-1375fps. with WW Silvertips from the Aegis, and my 9x23 Commander with Bar-Sto barrel goes about 1410-1425 with the same ammo. If you are running Cor-Bon .38 Super, the only meaningful gain in going to 9x23 is the reliability of a rimless case, and the strength of the cases themselves. I suppose one could argue that bullet designs are better in 9x23 factory ammo than in the Super, but I'm not so sure. Now, if you are not using Cor-Bon ammo in your Super, you'll get lots more than 80-100fps in velocity gain, going to the 9x23. And muzzle blast isn't that bad, though it does bark a bit!

I'll bet that if Superman had been packing a 1911 that armed robber would be dead. 1/3 stroke of a DA revolver trigger would have probably been a shot fired with a 1911.

As I've said before, I like all my handguns to have the same manual of arms. It's just one less thing to go wrong. That's why I'll never carry a 1911. The only exception is my NAA mini. I, however, will be the first to say that 1911s are fine weapons.

38-44... I'm getting 1450-1490 from 115 CorBon and 1350-1375 with their 124s...right at 1500 with PowR'Ball that I carry because it is a 100% reliable feeded....that was from the Commander.

In 9x23 from a 5" it was 1440 from the SilverTip and 1460 from the white box SPs.

Flop...it would have been very close. The Commander that I had just been forced earlier that year to give up by a no-mind chief who banned semis as "dangerous" had the stock 4.5 pound pull....but you are right..he would have been toast... But since I had given him the third command to "drop it" I was authorized by departental written policy to drop him...

Bob

Can't go wrong with a Commander 1911,has everything one needs.