Beans- I know the FXR is pretty special, she is a darn nice bike to ride and handles really well. It is one Harley bike model that has held it's value as good as anything can in this world. Eric Buell designed the frame, and after owning a corner carving X1W White Lightning, the BuellBoy definately knows his stuff about making bikes that handle really well.

quote:

Like I said before, speed limits in this country bear no relationship to automobile braking or acceleration performance and haven't done so since at least the late 80s.

Speed limits are imposed arbitrarily by legislators with ZERO input (or close to zero) from civil and automotive engineers.

What changed between the late 80's and now? Business district speeds are generally 35, residential 25, freeway 55 in town, freeway out of town 70. Main trunk lines outside of business districts, 40-50 depending on access points. Two lane country roads, generally 50 depending on access points. And various other areas set at the 85th percentile of free-flow traffic. What's the problem? The only problem I see is local politicians who cave in to squeaky gadflys and set speed limits lower than what they should be on city (not state or county) roads. This doesn't generally happen at a state or federal level that I'm aware of. Or it hasn't yet. Maybe when gas hits $6.00 a gallon it will.

And what would "automotive engineers" have to do with setting speed limits? Civil or traffic engineers, sure, but automotive engineers?

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Originally posted by boomstick:
What changed between the late 80's and now?

The capabilities and sophistication of the average car has grown exponentially. It is now difficult to find a family car without multiple airbags, anti-lock brakes, and electronic stability control.

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Originally posted by boomstick: And various other areas set at the 85th percentile of free-flow traffic.

Ain't never seen one.

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Originally posted by boomstick:
And what would "automotive engineers" have to do with setting speed limits?

Someone brought up the issue of braking as a parameter in setting speed limits. Who understand that better? Automotive engineers or politicians?

Speed limits in this country are artificially low. When traffic is light, 75 mph is done in 100% safety where I live. When traffic is heavy, speeds self-regulate. It is so obvious that I have a hard time understanding why such is not understood universally.

Generally folks say "obey the law" as a simple CYA statement. It's the same as the boiler plate language hidden in the fine print on gun mags that says such and such might be illegal where you are, follow your local gun laws, etc.

Those who, from time to time, chime in about carrying illegally get a polite reminder about what is or isn't a good idea to talk about. (For those who missed it, remedial criminality 101, lesson one, day one - Keep your mouth shut.)

Obey gravity



It's the law






bob

quote:

The capabilities and sophistication of the average car has grown exponentially. It is now difficult to find a family car without multiple airbags, anti-lock brakes, and electronic stability control.

The perception/reaction time of drivers is still the same. And anti-lock brakes don't generally stop you any faster on dry pavement, they just allow you to maintain control. And there are plenty of boneheads out there who pump anti-lock brakes in the snow and ice when they should just stand on the pedal when necessary.

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Someone brought up the issue of braking as a parameter in setting speed limits. Who understand that better? Automotive engineers or politicians?

Can you give me an example of state legislation that was passed by politicians with no input from engineers which regulated speed on a state roadway?

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Speed limits in this country are artificially low. When traffic is light, 75 mph is done in 100% safety where I live. When traffic is heavy, speeds self-regulate. It is so obvious that I have a hard time understanding why such is not understood universally.

First, NO speed is done with 100% safety. Next, most people will drive in a safe manner no matter what the posted speed limit says. But speed limis aren't set with only "most people" in mind. In fact the somewhat arbitrary figure of 85% is used, that is, at least 85% of drivers can be counted on to maintain a reasonable speed for conditions regardless of what is posted. Speed limits are set in order to regulate the other 15%. The fact that lots of places are posted artifically low for political reasons is something you'd have to take up with your (most likely) local legislators. Demand to see the TCO for the stretch of roadway you have in mind. If they can't produce one, it's not a valid speed limit. Demand that an engineering study be done and a realistic speed limit be set.

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Originally posted by boomstick:
The perception/reaction time of drivers is still the same.

Do Germans have better reaction times than us?

quote:

Originally posted by boomstick:
Can you give me an example of state legislation that was passed by politicians with no input from engineers which regulated speed on a state roadway?

The National 55 MPH Speed Limit. The 65 MPH Ohio state maximum speed limit.

Your point about demanding a proper speed limit be set is moot when the statutory maximum is lower than what the engineering result will reveal.

I'm done. You must be one of those AH who sit in the left lane blocking everyone because you are obeying "the law".

quote:

Originally posted by Wyatt Earp:

I'm done. You must be one of those AH who sit in the left lane blocking everyone because you are obeying "the law".

Really? Why is that? You must be one of those prima facie AH's.

I thought the speed limit on German highways other than the autobahn, which was designed for higher speeds than our freeways, was 60mph and in town 35. As far as the Autobahn, Germans have a whole different attitude when it comes to driving and I don't think it would be inaccurate to say they're generally way better drivers than Americans for a number of reasons. I don't know many Germans, but I wonder if they eat, drink apply makeup and text on their cell phones while driving on the autobahn. I'm sure their penalties for traffic violations are a lot stricter than here too. Promillo?

Don't know, whats about the penalties in the US, but germany has the lowest penalties for speeding in the EU.

Here the german "Bussgeldkatalog", a sample of our penalties for certain km/hs too fast.
http://www.bussgeldkataloge.de/ubussgeld.html

E.g. you have to drive more than 31 km/h too fast in a town, to get your license revoked.

In many cases, I think it's extremely important to follow the speed limits. I mostly agree with the posters on this thread who feel that speed limits are about trying to maintain safe speeds for braking and control.

Some of the highway speeds might be artificially low, and it's annoying when people drive really slow in the left lane on the highway, but I think many folks tend to drive too fast nowadays, especially in residential areas.

As an example, this weekend my son and I were out on a bike ride in our neighborhood when some knucklehead came flying down a hill (much faster than the 35MPH limit) and turned onto the street we were riding. He was going so fast that he couldn't take the turn tightly and was driving on the wrong side of the road. His car almost hit a mailbox on the wrong side of the road and he almost flipped over. If my son and I had been riding a couple of hundred yards further up the road, he propbably would have hit us. As he drove by us he looked like he was shaken up by the event (had that pale, holy #@&! look on his face). He had almost flipped his little suzuki samuri type of vehicle over.

In my opinion it's not a good idea for folks to be driving 40 or 50 MPH in a residential neighborhood (where the posted speed limit is 30MPH and where there are lots of kids around).

By the way, in our town (and many surrounding towns in NH) our residential speed limit is 30MPH, not 25MPH. Folks still speed much faster than 30MPH here.

What a coincidence while I was reading this I can hear the TV in the background and they're talking about another national speed limit to save gas. What a bunch of BS! I refuse to drive 55!

Smitty

1) If you speed, you do have to allow for stopping distances. Tailgating and weaving in and out of traffic are right out. I worry more about aggressive driving than speeding. I also think that slower traffic should keep out of the passing lanes. In congestion, I simply keep up with traffic or slow down. If it's too crazy, I just take regular roads instead of highways.

2) Yes, speeding is breaking the law. If you get caught speeding, you weren't paying attention. If you get in an accident due to your excessive speeed, you weren't paying attention and your speed was too fast for conditions. Pay the fine. Pay the increased insurance rates. Live with the consequences of your accident. If the penalty is too much to bear, slow down or take the bus. If you have kids and you speed, one consequence may be that they will also speed as teenage drivers.

3) Finally, to make this topical for the forum, I certainly don't think I'd speed if I was carrying a concealed weapon on a regular basis.

I drive reasonably close to the posted limits but neveras fast as my particular vehical and the road/traffic conditions might support.
If I am in a car that is capable and safe at 80mph and conditions allow, then I will run 80 and I'll be running the latest detector on the dash and keeping my eyes open for traps.
If i'm in one of my trucks I might do 65 in a 70 zone and I'll be in the right lane.
I used to own a heavily modified comaro that never saw more than 80mph on the highway. Guys that try and run 100 plus..just doesn't make sense.
As for the question of this post...speeding does not carry the same legal penalties as carrying a gun against the current laws. Can't really compare..however if you want to talk about folks that will go out drinking with full intent of getting behind the wheel...that should hold every bit the penalty that carrying concealed into a prohibited location does. And that includes never being able to drive again.
I'm a good guy, but if I ever forgot to take off my gun and entered a bank or church, or other places that i might not even realize are prohibited...well.. we all know the outcome. I'd get slapped with a felony 2, never be allowed a permit again..ever. But let me take a 1996 buick to the local bar drink myself stupid, get back into that 2 ton behemoth and go kill a family and I'll be back on the road by the next holiday driving season.

The German autobahn works because there are strictly observed rules about driving there. Slower traffic MUST give way to faster traffic. If you're in the left lane and someone going faster comes up behind, it's mandatory you pull over and let him by, because it's illegal to pass to the right. He'll let you know by flashing his headlights, and if you're slow moving over, you'll get a taste of his air horns. Next, you'll be stopped and cited for obstructing traffic if there are polizei around. It'd never work here.

As far as "today's cars are safer", this has led to a decrease in American's driving skill.

I learned to drive before seat belts were standard in cars. Was taught to drive defensively, and handle the car like my head was on the front bumper.

Some folks act like they are driving an M1A1 Abrhams and nothing can hurt them.

Another reason I never speed is my home county starts the fine for all moving violations at $550.00, and it goes up quickly from there.