I was thinking of making up a load from my 250 flat nosed lead bullets I usually use for 45 colt. I will be shooting them from my model 25-2 and would like to have a warm load for target and a (if I feel like it ) hunting load. I am using 231 Winchester and Federal Large Pistol primers with Winchester brass. I load 230 grain lead at 5.2 of Win 231 for the same gun. What do you guys think-- 5.0 grains of 231 would give me a good round?

jbouwens,
Are going to load the 250 or the 230?Which ever it's going to be is it a hardcast bullet or a swaged lead bullet?I don't have any experience loading with Win-231 with anything heavier than a 230 in the .45acp,5 to 5.1 grains has always duplicated miltary ball for me.For the 250-255 grain bullet I use Unique,7 grains for 886 fps out of my 25-2 with a 6 and 1/2" barrel,and to hotrod it I use 14.5 grains of 2400 for a muzzle velocity of 1137 fps which is totally safe out of the 25-2,I have taken deer and wildboar with this round,it's a one holer at 25 yards depending on the alloy and design of the 250-255,I use a 255 Keith style HCSWC normally in the autorim case but it'll work in the acp case also,if you go back through the reloading section you'll see a posting for the 45autorim hog load,you'll find what you're looking for there,Paul has a very good load worked up in 45 super brass similar to my autorim loading and i have tried his load and like it awfully well.I think if your going to use a 250- 255 grain bullet you may want to choose a different powder such as Unique or 2400 and a Federal large pistol primer and whichever case you decide to use.Hope this helps,if not give us a yell back.
Equalizer

quote:

swaged lead bullet

I want to load the 250 grain bullet. I am using Georgia Arms .252 250 grain lead flat-nosed bullets (I am pretty sure they are swaged from them)I have been in the back to fetch some stuff one or two times and saw the fellas making lead cowboy bullets in the machine. Anyway- I can load 231 Win, HP-38, or H-110, if I need to. I don't want to get leading from a real hot load. I load a Gold Dot 230 ACP round for other pistols and I ocasonally shoot them through the Model 25. I just would like to work up a 250 grain lead load for the fun of popping steel and punching holes.

I've used 7.5 ~ 8g W231 under a 250g RNFP in LC.

Like you, I use a similar load in acp, 5.3g W231 under a 230g cast TC.

quote:

I want to load the 250 grain bullet. I am using Georgia Arms .252 250 grain lead flat-nosed bullets (I am pretty sure they are swaged from them)I have been in the back to fetch some stuff one or two times and saw the fellas making lead cowboy bullets in the machine. Anyway- I can load 231 Win, HP-38, or H-110, if I need to. I don't want to get leading from a real hot load. I load a Gold Dot 230 ACP round for other pistols and I ocasonally shoot them through the Model 25. I just would like to work up a 250 grain lead load for the fun of popping steel and punching holes.

I think that you mean .452 rather than .252. If they are swagged bullets you had better not go to the high end of the data or you will get leading like you have never seen, or so I hear. My 240gr LSWC load for the 45ACP is constructed from a different powder, SR4756 and I get in the neighborhood of 850fps. It can go hotter but there is no need, I can't hunt deer in my state with it anyway. If it were me, and I like HP-38, I wouldn't go above 4.5gr of W231 to start. Remember the golden rule to handloading, "work up your load."
You will have a real thumper when you get it going in the 850fps range. I am going to attempt to get mine over 900fps in the future. I just have too many reloading projects going on at this time.
Best to you!

quote:

I think that you mean .452 rather than .252. If they are swagged bullets you had better not go to the high end of the data or you will get leading like you have never seen, or so I hear. My 240gr LSWC load for the 45ACP is constructed from a different powder, SR4756 and I get in the neighborhood of 850fps. It can go hotter but there is no need, I can't hunt deer in my state with it anyway. If it were me, and I like HP-38, I wouldn't go above 4.5gr of W231 to start. Remember the golden rule to handloading, "work up your load."
You will have a real thumper when you get it going in the 850fps range. I am going to attempt to get mine over 900fps in the future. I just have too many reloading projects going on at this time.
Best to you!

Good call--- I mean .452 Your right, I think I'll start with a few 4.5 grain rounds and work them up. I have Ruger old model Super Blackhawk that would handle a 1/4 of dynomite (I'm pretty sure) to shoot any hot ones if they get to leady. Thanks guys for your input.

I have a 625 and 25 as well as a .45 Ruger Bisley.
The 200 grain Lasercast .452 with 5.0 grains of Trail Boss gives 766 mean in my 4 inch 625. 5.8 grains of W231 gives 849 mean in the same handgun.


In the 45 Bisley with 255 grains Magnus bullet I chrono 675 mean with 5.0 grains of Trail Boss and 780 mean with 9.5 grains of AA No. 5.

I am still experimenting, but I think you will do well with W231 or Trail Boss. I load the 625 in .45AR brass. I prefer it in revolvers.

I've fooled around with hotter than normal .45 Auto rim loads in the 25-2 and a 625 a few times. The N frame can surely take FAR more than the mild .45 AR loadings shown in the manuals. The .45 AR is loaded to even lower pressures than the std .45 ACP. Unsure as to WHY?? I've used Auto Rim brass vs ACP brass as a safety measure so those far hotter loads would never find their way into an auto.

I used UNIQUE, CCI 300 primers and a 255 gr Lead SWC , new Starline Auto Rim brass in a 4" M-625.

6.0 of Unique gave me an avg of 854 fps from 10 shots.

7.0 of UNIQUE averaged 934 fps but I had a HI of 968 and a LOW of 891. The 77 fps deviation led me to try a CCI 350 primer.

7.0 of UNIQUE but with CCI 350 primer; gave me an avg of 921 fps but again I had a rd from each cyl, sometimes two with velocities in the 860 to 880 range. With the majority running 940 to 950 with good accuracy. these lower vel rds were my group flyers.

I ended up settling on 6.5 of UNIQUE, WLP primers , the star line AR brass and a .452" 255 gr commcl cast lead SWC. That averaged in the 880 fps area. Accuracy was fine, but after 30 or 40 rds I had far too much leading. Probably a result of the TOO hard commcl cast slugs. I dusted off a 250 gr SWC Lyman mould.....thats as far as I got. Maybe this winter??

Another loader I know used HERCO and with 255 gr lead SWC's was getting in excess of 1100 FPS!! I felt this had to be far overpressure and never tried his loads. Then again he shoots them often from a 4" 625 and doesn't seem to have any problems!?!? they still scare me.

I agree that the Auto Rim can be hot rodded especially in a 25-2 or 625. I'd use the Starline brass as it's FAR more consistent than the older RP brass I had on hand. I'd imagine one could safely push a 250 to 265 gr lead slug to the 880 to 900 fps area with UNIQUE.

The August 2008 issue of HANDLOADER has a great article by Brian Pierce on the 45 Auto Rim.

FN in MT

Re

quote:

acp, 5.3g W231 under a 230g cast TC.

Very pleasant and accurate load in my 625-8.

And all Trail Boss moderate loads I've used are quite nice for the dreaded Bowling Pin Gang.

quote:

Originally posted by Frank237:
I've used Auto Rim brass vs ACP brass as a safety measure so those far hotter loads would never find their way into an auto.
FN in MT

Pressure wise in a S&W revolver M22, will the ACP case handle what the AR case does? I'm currently using 7.0 grs Unique, WLP, 255 gr Oregon Trails in RP 45 AR cases. I'd like to load a few in ACP to use in full/half moons for reloads. This is a defense revolver M22 TR. I really like the AR cases as I have had hang ups with the full moon clips and might just order a couple HKS speed loaders. Your experience is appreciated.

Personally I wouldn't carry ANY reload in a firearm used for CCW or OD carry. Just one more thing for an attorney to try to use against You in a use of force incident. The subject of factory of reloads has been beaten to death on the forums I'm sure a search would yield all sorts of information. You can make Your own decison.

Brass.... I understand that std SAAMI.45 acp factory loads are limited to 21,000 psi, and +P is at 23,000 psi. Factory Auto Rims are loaded down to 15,000 CUP's...NOT psi. But none the less to a much lower pressure than std .45 acp.

I'd imagine that modern std or +P . 45 ACP brass should do fine. When I started to hotrod the Auto Rim I used the same 18 cases of Federal .45 ACP +P brass and closely monitored each group of six. Even with some HERCO loads that I wouldn't even print.....primer pockets stayed tight, despite flattened primers. With 6.5 to 7.0 of UNIQUE loads I experienced NOTHING that would indicate that the brass was having pressure issues.

I agree that a couple of full moon clips with ACP's in the pocket allow for quick, efficient "carry" revolver reloads. I use them all the time. BUT I carry WW 230 gr Ranger factory loads in them, not reloads.
IF You wished to carry the 7.0 of Unique loads I'd do it in Starline brass and carry a couple of speedloaders. The Starline is as modern and as strong as it gets.

I don't think that Your load is too high, certainly not a problem for Your M-21. But it would be nice to get a pressure figure somehow to affirm that. I have seen some older data fromt he 70's that showed some HERCO , 2400 and UNIQUE loads that were a few grains above whats shown NOW. I never heard about blown out cases when supported in a cylinder from any of them. YET I HAVE heard and seen UNsupported .45 acp cases weaken and blow out ahead of the web in semi autos when loaded too hot.

FN in MT

quote:

Originally posted by Equalizer S&W45:
jbouwens,
For the 250-255...and to hotrod it I use 14.5 grains of 2400 for a muzzle velocity of 1137 fps which is totally safe out of the 25-2,I have taken deer and wildboar with this round...
Equalizer

Hey Equalizer, do you have any info on this load in a 22-4? If not, what charge of 2400 would you use with an Oregon Trail 255 gr. SWC in ACP cases? Also, do you taper crimp it? Thanks!

You can duplicate that 7.0 Unique load with 12.0 AA9. I wouldn't carry moonclipped swc's for defense reloads. They don't insert very well at all. Tend to hang up. Use a bullet with a round profile.

Kevin,
I don't know if i'd try my load out of your 22-4 or not,at least not at that type of velocity,pinky has a good point about swc's with reloading,the roundnose profile is going to be faster,especially with moonclips.About my load of 2400,I never will shoot it out of my 1917s,only 25-2s and 625s,I 've not examined a 22-4 and don't know the cylinder wall thickness,I'm sure the 22-4 is a stronger made handgun than the old 1917s,and the frames and cylinders are tempered harder than their predecessers but I would'nt advise my load until you get some other oppinions,hate to see you ruin a fine revolver,I believe you would get pretty good results with 7 grains of Unique under a OregonTrail if you choose.Hope this helps,but i'll check into and see if it would be safe out your 22-4.
Equalizer

There isn't anything you can't shoot out of the M22 that Elmer didn't shoot out of the M1917, is there?

I mean, if he took a chance on shooting one of his "big loads", as he calls them, out of a surplus military model of the M1917, surely you can shoot those in a firearm with better, more modern metallurgy, right? At least it would seem obvious to me it would be OK.



As far as moon clipped LSWC hanging up, it is true they are difficult, any smith can chamfer your charge holes for little or nothing. I shoot LSWC in competition all the time with my 38spl loads and have to reload timed. Never had much of a problem with it after having my chambers chamfered.

If you have a M627PC then you know how aggressive a chamfer can be! It doesn't need to be that aggressive, IMO.