I'm having trouble getting 25 yd accuracy with wadcutters using Lee equipment. I can get the pre-crimp bullet length the same within a thou or two but the crimping die lengthens some and shortens others until I have 12-15 thou differences. I called Lee and they explained that that happens because of differences in case wall thickness and that using that die I'd need cases of the same lot. They recommend using the crimp in the bullet seating die. Tried that and with the die screwed down one full turn (you screw it out 3 from touching the case holder for seating) I get a visible crimp though less than the one I get with the crimping die. Still, the bullets are 7-10 thousandths differing in length. I haven't shot 'em yet, but I suspect I'll get tight groups with fliers again. I'm loading 3.2-3.5 gr 231. Cases are very close in length to start and I'm loading Rainiers DEWC. What am I doing wrong?

If you're trying for 1" groups at 25 yd, I'd use one brand of brass and trim them initially to uniform length. That gets rid of brass variation.

Then I'd only use enough crimp to hold the bullet, and be sure it is in a groove and not crushing the bullet.

I'd want to try another bullet than the Ranier for comparison. I like Ranier for IDPA but not my first choice for bullseye. My best results come with Lee cast TL 148gr.

I'd make sure the barrel is completely free of lead and copper residue.

Then if you still get 3" out of group flyers, I'd suspect the shooter is the problem.

OKFCO5, thanks for your response. I am using all Winchester match brass trimmed more or less to the same length (1.146), though no matter what I occasionally still get a couple thousandths variance there. The bullet is Rainiers DEWC (copper plated) so no grooves. I chose it because I'd like to be able to shoot indoor competition.

With that info can I still go for a minimal crimp and expect accuracy?

After sorting your brass and trimming your brass to the same length, if your load is light enough, you might try running the loaded round through a sizing die or a Lee factory crimp die without the crimp. This will remove the bell. Friction holds some very powerful rifle rounds together. It should hold your .38 Specials.
My $0.02.

With all due respect to nicky4968, I'd avoid the Lee FCD as Lee suggested. This die, or using a carbide sizing die, can damage your bullets and ruin accuracy. I've never used Rainiers bullets but since they have no crimp groove I would try seating them flush with the case then do as Lee said and adjust the seat die to crimp lighly arond the front of the bullets. If this is a lot shorter than the length you are loading to now use a lighter powder charge and work your way back up to be on the safe side.

Thanks for the correction. I have no experience with plated bullets whatsoever.

I have used HBWC for most of my loading in the .32 and .38 rounds. Wish they would make one for the .45, but that is another story. When you are measuring a plated bullet, a few .001 won't be much in overall. If you were shooting these in a pistol, I could see the worry about it. But in a revolver you don't need to worry unless it is sticking out of the cylinder. Some guns just doesn't care about some bullets. I would get some different types and try them out. Good Luck

Taking Lee's advice I went to the range this morning with 3.0-3.3 rounds of 231 crimped in a separate step with their bullet crimp adjusted to a couple different crimps. The OAL were within a coouple .001 of each other which I had not managed with their crimping die. The groups were as big at 25 yards as any I've loaded so I believe a good crimp is needed. I then measured the case walls I'm firing and they came out to .010 to .011, not much variation. Hard for me to believe that variation is causing the differences I have in OAL using their Crimping die. I'm going back to using the crimping die and experiment with changing the OAL from the ideal I was after, 1.160. Thanks, all, for your advice.

I found when I use HBWC instead of DEWC they hold their seating depth better. (HDY or Berry)
With 38 and 357 I'll seat the bullet about .015 above the case, (Winchester Brass) and use Lee's FCD with a little less than a 1/2 turn in and follow the slightly rounded top edge of the bullet.

TwoPound, could I get you to clarify? I've trimmed my Winchester brass to about 1.140. So you'd set the bullet to .155, right? The instructions for the Lee crimping die (is that your "FCD?) are to screw it down until it touches the case then... you're saying a half turn from there? That's about what I came to tonight, about 5/8s of a turn actually and the bullets were set to .160 to start. I've been trying to copy the crimp radius I see on Winchester Match, but I shorten the OAL by .020 or so doing it. Perhaps lead, being softer than copper, would allow that. I ordered some Berrys HBWC earlier tonight. I've read that .358 is more accurate than .357. The Rainier DEWC are .357. If I want to try lead WC do you have a recommendation in 148 gr? -Thanks.

Do these Lee dies post size the cartridge ?

Yes, they do post size the cartridge. That's why Lee told me differences in case wall thickness, which the said might run to .006-.008 would prevent me getting a consistent OAL crimping these wadcutters.

For plated bullets with no cannelure I use a taper crimp die, or a light roll crimp. I trim all my .38spl brass to 1.145" and I don't mix headstamps, each batch will have be loaded the same number of times for more consistent hardness.

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Yes, they do post size the cartridge.

If a bullet is swaged it will have little to no spring back, the brass case will spring back more (depending on it's hardness), this can cause inconsistent or no case tension on the bullet.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jibjab,

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If a bullet is swaged it will have little to no spring back, the brass case will spring back more (depending on it's hardness), this can cause inconsistent or no case tension on the bullet.[/QUOTE]

Does "spring back" here mean in OAL or the purchase tension the case has on the wadcutter? And above by "headstamps" do you mean brand and type or lot? Sorry I'm new to this and don't yet know the vocabulary.

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Sorry I'm new to this and don't yet know the vocabulary.

Me neither.

quote:

Does "spring back" here mean in OAL or the purchase tension the case has on the wadcutter?

The tension on the bullet.

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by "headstamps" do you mean brand and type or lot

By brand, and the same lot if possible.