Thanks, jibjab, got it.

Hello keppelj
My .38 brass measures 1.145. With the HDY 148gn .358 HBWC, and the Berry 148gn .357 HBWC, I seat them to 1.160 COL. The Crown and the Cut Ring are even on the bullets. I use my Lee Factory Crimp Die with a little less than a 1/2 turn in from where it touches the top of the case. The roll crimp follows the slight radius on the WC as if it were a cannelure without cutting into the lead or copper plate. I did have issues with DEWC being pushed down into the case when post sizing/roll crimping, but not with the HBWC's. Many reloaders seat WC's even with or slightly below the case. And yes, I like the Hornady HBWC's, and the Remington's are good too if you don't mind the messy lube.

TwoPound, thanks for the info. I'm very close to your procedure now, and have ordered both the Berrys and HDY .358 HBWC to try. Your explanation makes sense. Checking my once shot Winchester cases, quite a few were under .145 and for a time I trimmed to .138, the shortest. I'd better make up my mind, I guess, because it's awkward segregating two lengths. Thanks again for your help. I'm looking forward to shooting some reasonable groups!

Afterthought, TwoPound. Would you care to share your load preferences for the rounds we're talking about? My groups with the Rainier always have fliers, but ignoring those 3.5 of 231 is probably best tho I've had good groups down to 3.3. I haven't experimented with any other powder.

Hello Again keppelj
I'll be happy to share published data, Winchester starts at 3.5gn 231 and max at 4.0
with a WSP for .38 spl / 148gn HDY HBWC
Hornady's data starts at 3.0
I load 3.1gn 231, with a Fed 100.
They shoot real well out of my 14-5 / 6" bbl
The Berry's will need a little more push to get them out the tube, they recomend "Mild Jacketed Load Data." Rainier says to use load data for lead. Not much published data for plated bullets yet. I tend to load mostly "Bunny Fart" ammo for indoor use, and I had a few squibs when I started playing with plated bullets. You have to remember every gun is different, I could show you .357 load test targets from a 686, 627, and 19 that have completely different characteristics. I'm sure you will find your
"Pet Load", it just takes a little time. IMHO load development is about 48 to 49% of the hobby.........Hope this helps.....2#

P.S. I didn't have great luck with Raineir, but thats just me.

Thanks, Two Pound, I think I've seen similar recipes on the Hodgdon powder site. Confirmation is nice. I also have a M14, but my workhorse for gross accuracy testing is a 686 since it has a red dot and I don't have to haul out the ransom rest at least until I get really fussy about this. Yes, I identify with the pet load idea. I learn from my dogs! Thanks again.

Try a different gun and I'll bet you don't get the same results.

Smitty

Smitty500Mag is correct, what shoots one hole out of my 14, is all over the paper out of my 686.......

I know what you are saying is true in principle. The 14 will shoot some things better and the 686 others. And I may take your advice and shoot the 14 tonight in my testing at your prompting. One issue is that because the 686 has a red dot I am more confident that I am aiming it at the same place every time so the test is of the rounds not me. I have tested lots of factory ammo using both guns in a ransom rest and they are different. I have to say the 14 was better overall using six different match rounds but the tightest groups of all were shot with the 6" 686.

Last night I shot both the 14 and 686, 4 10 shot groups and only the last group was reasonable (3.5 231). Don't know where the problem is. The powder weights are right and I can finally get a consistent OAL with a decent crimp. I'm going to set this project aside until the Berry HBWC and HDY WC arrive and try those. Load from 3.5 to 4.0 a tenth of a grain apart. Maybe start with some new brass. Thanks for all your help.

Are the barrel twist rates the same between the two Revolvers?
S&W .357 Mag are 1:18.75 twist and Colt used a 1:14 twist, I'm not sure about the mod 14.

Jibjab, I don't know. I googled the pertinent keywords and found nothing. I'll do a search of the forum.

When you can't get them to shoot, try another brand of bullets. I always had good luck with Lead HBWC. Preferably Star brand when I could get them. 2.8 Gr. Bullseye in my Mod 19 6" would group nearly as good as my Mod 52. Taper crimped as a separate step after bullet was seated. Would seat the bullet with about .015" above the crimp.

If you are stuck with plated bullet because of indoor restrictions, then try another brand, or different size, then different powders, etc. until you get the accuracy you are looking for. A good S&W revolver with a good target load should group 1 1/2" at 25 yards.