Years ago in various gun magazines some authors pointed out that they thought if you used a handload for self defense a prosecutor could make it tougher on you by convincing a jury that you used "special killer bullets" on some poor BG. That sounded ludicrous but I wonder if anybody has any real-world information on that.

Thanks (bitter, gun-toting, immigrant-hating Uncle Norm)

Hi Uncle Norman, I have had the same concerns in the past. I could not find a case of an obvious self-defence shooting where the ammunition was called into question. Soooo, roll-um if you need to, I do.

Another bitter, God and gun huggin', bigot, immigrant-hatin' bumpkin.

Others call me Kind

Well, as a lawyer friend of mine says: "Do what you want, but a good shoot is a good shoot."
If everything else is good with the shooting scenario NO ONE is going to ask about the type of ammo you used.

I NEVER have bought the fancy schmancy latest and greatest defensive ammunition available, never. I haven't bought ammo for several years to be honest. If I want a jacketed bullet defensive round, I make one. If I want a LSWC defensive round, I make them too. If I want a heavy hollow point defensive round, I make them as well. Getting the picture?

I can't remember just who it was on the forum but they said: "If I ever shoot anyone and the ammo is called into question I'll just tell them NO ONE takes the patience or care loading factory ammo that I do loading my self defence rounds." Sounded logical to me!

The only thing that really matters is that you feel comfortable doing it and you have some kind of logical defense for doing so.

I may use handloads for self defense carry, or sometimes factory ammo. I feel more confident in my carefully crafted handloads. They -- and this is important -- use components available to and in common use by major manufacturers, and they duplicate or are equivalent to the ballistics of and use bullet types available in commercial ammunition.

If you decide to load up some reversed HBWCs to ++++p++++ levels and seal mercury in the cavity with solder, or dip your bullets in garlic or henbane or whatever other werewolf poison you choose, and use those for self defense you may be asking for trouble. But if your ammo otherwise is equivalent to commercially available ammo, particularly that used by law enforcement, then I agree with a "justifiable defense is a justifiable defense" to reduce the threat. Whether it makes a difference in any ensuing civil suit or not is dependent on many factors, particularly if you overpenetrate or use some exotic load causing collateral or unsual circumstance damages, but any commercial ammo equivalent to your handloads carries the same risks.

I don't know how accurate our ccw instructor said here in the prk it is illegal to use handloads for ccw.

I've never heard of any real incidents that support that claim. But if you are worried about what a prosecutor will do to you in court you might as well leave your gun at home.

I once read that a good shooting is a good shooting. However, after you are not charged with anything, the perp you shot or one of his relatives can sue you in civil court. I would think that reloads might be a tougher sell in that environment.

I have said more than once, I'm not Roy Rogers or Gene Autry, so I'm not shooting to "wing 'em", if ever presented with the situation.

I use HBWCs loaded upside down in a derringer and Golden Sabers, XTPs or LSWC in other applications. None are intended to just scare someone, if used.

Of course, out here in the country, I might just have to use a hunting rifle with Nosler BTs, or a shotgun with 00 buckshot, if that's what's handy at the time.

I wasn't asking if common sense was the rule but if anyone had ever heard of someone getting hung out to dry because of some "anti" prosecutor. Just curious.

As far as I know, there have only been two cases cited by the proponents of factory loads and neither case was a "good shoot" in self defense.

Hi Uncle Norman,

We covered this exact topic here about a year ago. Massad Ayoob was kind enough to give his perspective as well. He worked as an expert witness on a court case in which the inability to produce an ammunition exemplar may have hurt a defendant who used handloads.

I'm sure a search on his name and my name will turn up the thread in question. I'm not going to go through my thoughts on the subject again; I'm just too tired tonight!

cheers, erich

quote:

Originally posted by Erich:
Hi Uncle Norman,

We covered this exact topic here about a year ago. Massad Ayoob was kind enough to give his perspective as well. He worked as an expert witness on a court case in which the inability to produce an ammunition exemplar may have hurt a defendant who used handloads.

I'm sure a search on his name and my name will turn up the thread in question. I'm not going to go through my thoughts on the subject again; I'm just too tired tonight!

cheers, erich

Thanks, Erich. I don't know what "Exemplar" means because us bitter hicks only use two-sylab words. I've only been on this forum a few months but I'm curious about your line of work or expertise. I've seen you refer to a lot of shootings so you must be an attorney (shudder) or a med examiner. Again, thanks for the answer.

I believe the case Erich is referring to was actually a murder that was originally claimed to be a suicide. If so, it has no precedent setting standing in this issue, since self defense wasn't even an issue.

"ex-em'plar n. 1)That which serves as a model or pattern. 2)An instance or example; either a parallel or a typical instance; a case, type or specimen. 3) A copy of a book or writing."

The prosecution wouldn't surrender any ammunition from the scene for testing by the defense experts.

I remember reading an article by Massad Ayoob in "Combat Handguns" regarding this very same subject. He did mention 2 or 3 cases where this was an issue and one of the cases didn't turn out too well even though it was a clean shoot. He recommended factory fresh ammo for carry because the other guys lawyer can and will portray you as some kind of Rambo or blood thirsty vigilante for who factory loaded ammo just wasn't deadly enough. This strategy apparently worked in one of the cases he mentioned. I don't remember which issue it was but I do know for a fact it was in "Combat Handguns". The article really stuck in my head because I also reload.