Skip,

quote:

Could you imagine a court case where Mas was the prosecutor and I the defense attorney?

Yes, if weapons are collected at the door.

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I vote for dismissal!

You are out of order! The judge (me) already dismissed the case.



P.S. Welcome to page 21. Here is one for every page:

quote:

Here is one for every page:

I skeered me self with this idea. After I mentioned it I was afraid y'all would select me to be one of the ones SHOT . But I guess not. Life is good

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Well, I can tell you this, your attorney would be passionate if not legally literate!

What do you get for being passionate? At least there would be spirited debate.

ahh yes a passionate attorney and plenty of spirited debate.

Then the crucifixion.

Oh .... lest just torture one more page outta this so it can die right on a nice round caliber (22)

quote:

ahh yes a passionate attorney and plenty of spirited debate.

I'll date myself.



It isn't often I do this.



I'm trying to help with Venom's suggestion too about even page numbers.



But back to the attorney thing.


And passionate debate.


Kind of like when Perry Mason would debate a case.


Spirited debate, then the surprise piece of evidence.


After some super sleuth dug up the most incredible thing, ignored by a lesser barrister.

Perry would masterfully introduce it into the trial.


Amazing the jury.


Confounding the prosecution.


Compelling the judge.


Those were the days!



Venom, I hope this helps!

I'll do like Mike did only the other direction;

quote:

Oh .... lest just torture one more page outta this so it can die right on a nice round caliber (22)

Next time this comes up everone concentrate on the 5mm.

Of course you know the "m" means thousands, right?

I just saw something on the History channel this afternoon about ammo. They had a pretty good section on the Marine Corps using handloads for sniping and competitive shooting. They stressed that each weapon inventoried for a particular function had its own ammo specially made. They showed each bullet being weighed for uniformity, how the cases were measured for roundness and how they were trimmed. The whole segment stressed nothing but developing the most accurate load for a given weapon. There was nothing said about lethality. I thought it was great.

Hello: New guy here.

I have had the same concerns after reading several articles, and my conclusion is to buy a box or two, depending on your budget, of whatever commercial defense ammo you think is best, as expen$ive as it may be.

Then, load or buy something less pricey that will approximate it for familiarization, and practice, practice, practice!

Don't shoot the whole box before your replace it, so you will have a factory "exemplar" (sample) if the unthinkable happens. JMO.

sniper,
Thanks for your comments and welcome to the forum.

I think if you read all of the posts you will come to the conclusion that yours is the prevailing one out there.

(gets up on soap box)
Problem is it doesn't prevail with me!

I refuse to be "held captive" before there is a known case of a self defense shooting where handloads is the issue that they hang a guy. One thing that has failed to be mentioned is that "tactical training" for a civilian could be deemed as "preparing to kill" in some mind somewhere. You don't here that bantered about by those that make their living at training though. It would severely cut into their revenue if it was!

Like I told my mom last night on the phone. She said something to the affect that "we need a middle of the road guy in the White House." I said: "Mom, what do you think we have now?" I tried to explain to here that someone that was always willing to compromise was really someone that stood for nothing in particular. I said: "That's fine if you don't mind being wrong."

(sheepishly steps down from soap box.)

Ya'll still at this?

It is interesting though.

smith crazy, I too have thought about what you have posted as to "tactical training". If the "shooter" has a long list of IDPA, Action Pistol, concealed carry, etc., all types of LEGAL, harmless, and enjoyable activity....it may not matter when an attorney depicts the shooter as a "wannabe training and looking for a gunfight."

I have heard/read [maybe?] that it can be argued that if a shooter is using ANY weapon that is over and above what the "normal" police weapon is....then the shooter can MAYBE found guilty of using excessive force.

But again, there could be so many possible "scenarios" that any gun owner can be tied to it by a devious attorney and an ignorant jury. Everyone should use their own judgement.

As an alternative one can shoot the "shootee" with his/her reloads, and then load up the factory stuff and shoot the "shootee" with it in the same place. The factory bullets will "shoot out" the handloaded bullets and then the shooter can scoop up the incriminating evidence and display the factory rounds as the "bullets I used".

I'm just kidding.

I know the answer to all this but I'm not telling.

Anyway, I tried to do some 'net searches on the Bias case. Apparently no one has sat down and entered anything, at least nothing that you can get for free. I did find an obituary listing for a Lise C. Bias dated 02/28/89 if that is the same one. But you have to pay to get a copy of it.

I also found what appears to be a research paper done using the Bias case as a model. But I can't tell for sure because you have to pay to get permission to read the paper.

But I'm poor and don't care all that much, I was just bored.

So now, instead of saving the last bullet for yourself (a la cowboys and indians movies) we are supposed to save them for the attorneys?

I'm trying to convince myself Sniper is just kidding. Only shoot commercial ammo, and save some for the courtroom? Not on my planet, thanks. Actually, I'm just keeping the thread alive until rozenbem/hoptob weighs in. I'm sure that's his scheme.