Recently I sent a few (about 30) to one of the forum members to try. He has having a terrible time with leading in his M625JM. I happen to have one of those too and have had next to no problems with leading. I also cast my own as many of you know, so it was a neat thing to have someone else shoot your bullets and give you a report. It turned out OK for him and I was glad to help.

Well, the Bible says: "You reap what you sow" so I got a blessing by getting some bullets from our forum member Paul5388. We were talking in the thread about aluminum versus cast molds and he offered to send me some of his to try. (Just one more time when scripture has been proven true!)

Before I forget, I want to say a GREAT BIG THANKS to Paul for giving me some cool bullets to try.

Here is a picture of his compared to one of my favorites:

The one on the right is from an Ohaus mold that is supposed to cast a 270gr bullet. The ones I got weighed in right at 280gr! Imagine an almost 300gr bullet from the 45AR! The one in the middle is a 250gr and I think from a Lyman mold, maybe RCBS, Paul will have to straighten that out! Then last but not least, the one of the left is my H&G #502 which as cast weighs right in there at 240gr. This has been one that I have been very pleased with in my M625JM. I have also shot this in my PT1911 with some success. The POI is different though by 6"!

My original quest was to see if I wanted to purchase a mold for a "H&G #68" type of bullet, I got these others as a side benefit and thought I would give a range report on all of them.

Paul sent some of his from a Lee mold and I have a few commercially cast to test them against.

It is raining cats and dogs here today so a trip to the range may have to wait until Monday.

At any rate, here are the loaded bullets.


From left to right:
Paul's 200gr, commercially cast 200gr, H&G 240gr, 250gr and the 270gr.

The loads for the 200gr are a target load of WST powder. I am looking for a light recoil competition load for plates or paper punching. Something around the 750fps area.

The load for the 240gr, which I have reported on in my "FREIGHT TRAIN" load thread, has a different powder under this one, which is SR4756. Guess where I got the data from!

The load for the 250gr and 270gr is a replication of Paul's load for both bullets using 2400. One thing I thought was of notice. By volume the load for the SR4756 and 2400 are exactly the same. The weights are significantly different but the volume is exactly the same. It will be interesting to see how they turn out velocity wise!

Another thing to note is the substantial crimp on the 45AR bullets. I am anticipating quite a bit of recoil from these babies!

Should be a fun time. I think I need to take some pins and video of those behemoths!

Oh, yeah, one more thing of note. The 270gr as loaded wouldn't fit in a standard MTM 45ACP cartridge box! I guess I should have gotten out some of the 44Mag or 45Colt ones to put them in!


More to come!

mr crazy, I read with interest your journey into heavy bullets for the .45AR. I tried that last year and it was both discouraging and incouraging. I ordered some 255grain SWC bullets from Black River and they were very well cast bullets, very consistant in weight, well lubed and I was excited. Pulling some loads off the web, I loaded about 25 rounds of 4 different load using Unique powder. Out of my 1937 Brazilian they shot pretty well for starter loads, shooting centered but about 6" low at 25 yards. I started shooting with the beginning loads and progressed to the heavy loads. The heavier the load, the tighter the bullet holes. The heaviest charge ran from 2 1/2 to about 3 1/2 inches at 25 yards, which I consider good for my eyes and age(66). So I was excited, came back home and promptly got on the internet to order more of the 255's(I originally only ordered 100 to try). Then discouragement, Black River had discontinued that bullet. One other thing, you might need that heavy crimp. The last cylinder or two full of the heavy loads found me having to shoot by loading 2 holes at a time because the bullets were backing out enough to block the cylinder from turning if I didn't. For some reason, I hadn't anticipated that much recoil over the step up in weight. I did learn a couple of lessons though. Heavy weights will shoot well in the .45AR and it is better to go a little heavy on the crimp than too light. My experience, though limited. James

Smith crazy,
Cool. Waiting with "bated breath" for your results.

chunkum

smithcrazy, those should ALL prove out very good loads....I especially like that 240 SWC.

Try that one over some 2400! I shoot 12.5 to 13.0 grains in my 25-2's under the 240 with excellent accuracy. Lots of unburned granuales of powder but the accuracy is unquestionable.

Absolutely no pressure signs either....no cratered primers,no difficulties extracting.

Hey, Skip. What are you using for those crimps? Looks like a taper crimp FCD tightened way down.

Thanks for all of the responses already! This might just prove to be a popular thread! I hope to "pick your brains" too!

james said:

quote:

Then discouragement, Black River had discontinued that bullet.

That is the exact reason I got into casting. Now if I run out of a certain bullet all I have to do is go steal the neighbor's wheel weights! (just kidding!)

chunkum,
If you are who I think you are, these 270gr bullets came out of your mold!


Texas,
I had another thread, maybe it was on another forum, that dealt with that bullet and 2400. I called it "FREIGHT TRAIN" in the same spirit as those that were involved with "THE LOAD" for the 38spl. I used Elmer's data for that round and found that with my components and to get numbers that satisfied me, I had to use just a tad more powder than he did and about 1gr more than you suggest. The average velocity for my 2400 "FREIGHT TRAIN" load was 1029fps out of the 4" barrel. It did settle down once I started using Winchester Large Pistol primers. the SD got down to just over 10fps. That satisfied me pretty well.

pinky,
All of the loads in the 45AR cases were loaded on my Lee classic turret press in the 4 hole version. There isn't anything wrong with your eyes, brother! In the fourth hole there is a LFCD and yes it is tightened down pretty tight. It works real well though and helps with ignition, especially with the 2400 loads.

p.s. If you are someone who prays remember Paul5388. I haven't heard from him and he lives in Southeastern Texas. With the hurricane and all I hope he is alright!

If you are willing to cast your own, there is a group buy going right now at CastBoolits website for a near duplicate of that Ohaus 270 grain bullet

OK, I rushed to the range! Sometimes it is like being a kid the night before going to Grandma's house!

The 270gr Ohaus bullet was quite surprising to say the least. Recoil was no where as bad as I thought it was going to be. It was exceptionally accurate although it shot high right @ approximately 2", not too surprising all things being considered. I didn't get any video as I was rushing like a mad man!
The load: 13gr 2400, Winchester LP, firm crimp as seen in the picture fired from my M625JM (4" barrel).
Low 776.1fps
High 866.9fps
Avg 831.3fps
ES 90.8fps
SD 30fps
Now, these numbers don't impress me. The reason IS NOT THE BULLET! A thing to note, this bullet sits so shallow in the case it almost sits on top of it! The amount of the bullet in the case would allow much more powder to be put in it. In my experience, which is no where near some of yours, with 2400 is that in order to function correctly the pressure has to be up towards the top. Obviously this load was not. If I had more of these fine bullets I would like to test this with more 2400. (HINT, HINT!)
If you had only one handgun and it was a revolver chambered in 45ACP/AR these loads would be great for hunting larger game. Getting the velocity up in the high 800fps or even 900fps this would be quite a formidable round!
I would like to see if I could get them to run through my PT1911 too but not at the velocity desired from my revolver!


The 250gr LSWC load was 13gr of 2400 too with Winchester LP. These were also fired from the M625JM.
Here is how they fared:
Low 910fps
High 954.2fps
Avg 934.1fps
ES 44.26fps
SD 15.32fps
These too were very accurate. They shot high right too @ +3", again not too surprising. Recoil on these was MUCH more aggressive but not anywhere near as brutal as a 44mag. Notice how this bullet would seat in the case. That will raise pressure substantially and see how the 2400 started to settle down. These shot a one big hole group @ 10 yards. Impressive.

The most surprising load of the day was with my own 240gr bullet though, kind of partial I guess. Like I stated earlier I have ran a load with this bullet and 2400. I wasn't overly impressed with it's performance, at least numerically. So, I went to the venerable old Speer #8 and looked for a load with the "Wonder Powder" (as some have derogatorily called it.)SR4756. Using the same weight I use for my 357mag 160gr LSWC load I was quite impressed to say the least.
Here are the numbers:
Low 1058fps
High 1106fps
Avg 1078fps
ES 48.78fps
SD 13.3fps
Now that is a pretty substantial load from a 4" 45ACP/AR handgun! That large flat meplat would really get things rocking and rolling! One thing to note was the fact this shot POA/POI, another plus! It too was a one hole group @ 10 yards. Recoil was substantial but controllable. This load still has some room according to the data from the Speer #8. I may need to play with this one just a little more!


For the more mundane 200gr loads now.
I got just what I was looking for. A soft shooting accurate load that would function my Taurus PT1911 and shoot to POA/POI as the load I run now.

You will laugh when I post the numbers for these. Paul will probably ask if I was sure they were exiting the barrel!
These loads are under the suggested data available from the Hodgdon website so I'm not going to post them. I don't want to cause someone to get a bullet stuck and a second one chasing it down the barrel. It could be catastrophic and that would bother me a lot!

I will tell you this, both the commercial bullet and the one I got from Paul were exceptionally accurate and fed in the firearm without incident, I like that. I can do a "tap, rack, eject" drill but would rather not when shooting in competition!

Both loads used Wolf primers and were assembled on my Dillon Square Deal B press.

Commercial bullet:
Low 645.7fps
High 669.7fps
Avg 660.8fps
ES 24fps
SD 8.54fps

Paul's bullet:
Low 615.4fps
High 667.9fps
Avg 650.6fps
ES 52.5fps
SD 15.23fps

I didn't do anything else with the bullets that Paul sent. They were lubed with a mixed LLA and had my luber/sizer been working I would have given them a dose of my homemade lube first. They worked well as was. These loads were exceptionally accurate and follow up shots would have been super easy. They will work well for plates when we tackle them again. They too shot to POA/POI at 10 yards but would need be shot at longer distances to see how they do.

All in all I am quite satisfied with the results of the day. I would like to get some more of the Ohaus bullet to play with. For know though I think for a heavy revolver load I will stick with the SR4756 load with my 240gr bullet.

Thanks for all of your input to this point. I would appreciate more. Post your results with these types of loads here and we will share information!

Skip,

You may need a barrel stretcher for that 625. I get and average of 921 fps (instrumental at 15 feet) out of my 5" barrel with the same load at 1.361" OAL with a taper crimp.

I shot some the other day, when the weather was a little more cooperative, using 9.0 gr of SR 4756 with a Rem 2 1/2 primer and they shot pretty good.

Paul,
Glad to have you back! We got a bunch of your water laying around here. Want it back?
I wonder if we could ever get some of our snow to go down there after we're done with it?

At any rate, I think that SR4756 would be a much better choice for high performance loads in this caliber than 2400.

OK, this is the final report in this thread until I acquire some more of the 270gr bullets.

I wanted a load that would drive my 240gr LSWC to 1100fps. I found one that was in the venerable Speer #8 manual using SR4756. I shot it today with another variable thrown in. I had two types of homemade lube to test as well. The bullets were of a softer variety and ended up leading pretty badly. Driving them to 1100fps in a dirty firearm probably was a bad idea, but hey, I've had worse!

At any rate, here are the results I got with a significant amount of SR4756 from the 4" barrel of the M625JM.

Hard lube:
Low 1090fps
High 1144fps
Avg 1120fps
ES 53fps
SD 17fps

Not too bad. They were definitely accurate. 1 big hole @ 10yrds.

Soft lube:
Low 1068fps
High 1123fps
Avg 1095fps
ES 54fps
SD 18fps

These too were accurate. As for the leading and lower velocities, I think that is just a matter of having a dirty firearm.

With both lubes there was a little bit of the lube on the target, that's OK. Not much smoke and the lead cleaned out with just a patch and solvent. I will have to test these loads more but from a clean firearm!

This has absolutely nothing to do with a .45 ACP/AR, but it is about SR 4756.

I took my 6" M28-2 and replaced the whittled down mainspring with a factory mainspring, since it wouldn't ignite a CCI 400 anymore. It still has well less than 3# SA trigger pull and may actually be far below that. Maybe I should say it would make a Python owner envious.

Then I loaded some 358429s (I think these are sized at .359") seated deep (front driving band even with the case mouth) with 10.0 gr of SR 4756 and a CCI 400 small rifle primer. There weren't any FTFs in 6 shots and the bullets stayed where they are supposed to be. I think I like this load at what should be around 1300 fps, but I may jump it on up to 11.0 gr (1400 fps) and see how it shoots.

I have not loaded any AR in many years but when I did for top velocity SR4756 was THE powder. It seems this powder works REAL well in all the "Special" cases like .44 and .38 for getting top velocities at the least pressure but doesn't work near as well in true Magnums as H110 will. Also top go getter in 9mm and .38 Super...

A few years ago I picked up a 625 pre-IL Mountain Gun and a 625 PC 5"...I sold the 5" to my friend but still have the MG..but being a .41 Magnum fan with not a lot of time to reload the MG has shot mainly 230 ball...that I can see needs to change.

Bob

quote:

that I can see needs to change.

Yes Bob,
You need to send that handgun to me so I can give it the proper attention it deserves!

I have a M57 and a M629-1, but I have to really wonder why, especially when I have a M625-6!

If I was getting rid of one, it would be the M57, not the other two and that's mainly due to the versatility differences.

I can use two different cases (Special and Mag) that are easily obtainable in the 629. The 625 can use three cases, ACP, AR and Super. The .41 isn't as easy to obtain in any form as the other two.