Bruce Lee,
I load my 147 gr. bullets in 9mm Luger to ca. 900 fps. I am away from home but I do remember chronographing some loads with 147 gr. bullets and Blue Dot which went to 1000 fps. You should be able to find plenty of data on the Alliant powder website.

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Originally posted by Bruce Lee M:
Has anyone been able to reload the 9MM 147grJHP to 1000FPS? Speer No.12 lists 5.8grs of Bluedot as achieving that mark in a 4" 5906. Hard for me to believe. Alliant list 6.2grs of Bluedot hitting 1050fps but is most likely a test barrel. I have been able to reach 969fps in a 5" Berreta 92 with the 6.2gr of Bluedot. I did not correct that figure back to the muzzle but figure the chrono was at least 10 feet away. I'm open to suggestions on a full power load for the Speer 147JHPGD or the Remington 147JHP. I have put together a nice Colt 9MM conversion. At 48 ounces it just would love to fire some screaming loads. It shows great potential for accuracy with reloads. If you have some good data I'm interested. Bruce

Thanks for the great information from everyone. There's lots of good advice here. I just require a consistant load for the most part. I agree that running the load too much over 1000fps will be hard on the 9MM frame. I've peened a frame pretty good with hot loads. My current loading is easy to shoot. Maybe all I need is 999fps consistantly. I will be checking out all the data this weekend. I'll try to move away from Bluedot and find the powder that takes its place. Bruce

Max charge of VV-N105 and 147 grainer will do 1000 fps in several 4in 9mms tried.

While probably over pressure and possibly more energy than some pistols were designed for, an extra 200 fps makes a significant difference in this bullet weight.

edited for clarification.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: zeke,

zeke, what's the difference the extra 200 fps make for practical use?

I don't think you will get much (any?) better performance for defense use with JHP bullets.

You could get incresed performance with solids for hunting, but there are much better rounds for this use...

Tirofijo-with 147 grainers, going from 1000 fps to 1200 fps is a 20% increase in velocity and a 45% increase in energy. From about 326 ft-lbs to about 470 ft-lbs is considerable. Unless my math is way off, velocity to energy is not a linear relationship.

Am betting an xtp or Gold Dot would have a considerable increase in energy at the same time the bullet is fully expanded.

Right, but does the energy or velocity increase matter "on target" for defensive use with this bullet? TiroFijo is saying that he doubts it (and I agree). The one person who will certainly have to deal with all that extra energy is the shooter, in the form of added recoil and its concomitant wear on the pistol and difficulty to control. If it doesn't add to the experience on target, what's the point?

zeke, while the energy and momentum increase with velocity (and energy has a quadratic gain), this means little to a human target.

1200 fps is not enough to penetrate a metal plate much better than 1000 fps, while it may do the trick for a car door... But the increased velocity may fragment some bullets and decrease penetration after passing some intermediate barriers.

And the BG probably won't notice the increase in energy and momentum, many tests have shown that at this velocity range energy and temporary cavity are not very important, what really matters is the bullet expansion and penetration (permanent cavity).

The bullet already expands fully at 1000 fps, so all the extra velocity may add is some penetration. As most modern defense oriented 147 JHP bullets already penetrate 14" or more at 1000 fps, this has a dubious value, and there is always the possibility of bullet fragmentation and decreased performance with the added velocity.

you guys can "doubt" all ya want, but the reasoning for using higher powered rounds is real.

Please recognise am not "advocating" running 9mm 147 grainers at 1200 fps, and personally don't load them at this velocity. Also don't know anyone who does.

Course you are more than welcome to speculate that an increase of energy from 326 to 470 ft-lbs wouldn't matter.

Am guessing that the increase in velocity and energy does matter for those pushing the 158 grain 38 specials past commonly accepted velocitys?

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Am guessing that the increase in velocity and energy does matter for those pushing the 158 grain 38 specials past commonly accepted velocitys?

Good point zeke. One thing I think of when using an auto round though is the kinetic energy generated in the slide motion. When shooting "suped up" rounds in an auto there are a lot more bad things that can happen. Unsupported chambers, second shot capability and accuracy are all issues to be considered as well.

If I spend a bunch of my hard earned money on say a Sig P226 in 9mm I sure don't want to beat that thing to death or cut down the chances for a subsequent effective shot by "juicing" up some rounds that make folks ooooohhh and aaaawwww.


I am firmly behind the folks that run their 38spl hotter as you well know. Some of those things that pertain to causing an auto round problem just don't apply to the revolver.

FWIW

zeke, for personal defense and using solid bullets I see no point in increasing velocities beyond certain point. That's for all calibers and loads.

Energy and momentum numbers are just mental masturbat**n when the bullets spend that "power" beyond the intended target after passing through.

And if a JHP bullet is designed to perform optimally at certain velocity, IMO it is better to stick to this velocity bracket. Some bullets are designed to perform at high velocity (like Barnes 115 JHP copper solids), others at lower like the 147s.

Now, for hunting it is a different story, since some critters are pretty tough and the ranges are longer, so increased velocity does increse performance.

And I do believe in shooting bullets at high velocities if you can, I just think in this case it would be pushing the envelope with little to gain.

Tiro-you may be talking solid bullets, i'm not.

Maybe someday will load some 9 mm 147 jhps in 357 mag cases, just to see what what happen to em at 1200 fps. Ain't about to try and load em that fast in a 9mm case or pistol, when have plenty of 357's that were better designed for the pressure/beating.

It is all up to personal view. Personally I figure it takes energy to break muscle, tissue and bone cell bonding. The more energy my bullet has, the more cell bonds I figure it will break before it comes to a stop.

Folks that prefer to look at it as a waste of energy to have higher velocity are certainly entitled to their opinion. If I can get an extra 20% energy I'll take it ... sometimes it might be wasted, sometimes not. In the case of the 'Shooting of Trooper Mark Coates', the overwiegt BadGuy shot the trooper with a .22, which killed the trooper. The trooper shot the fat BG with 6 .357 magnum rounds, none of which penetrated to a vital organ ... too much fat. Maybe the trooper would have liked an added 20% energy that day.

Personally I practice with 1000 fps 147 grain PFP, but load 1175 fps Buffalo Bore 147 grain Speer Uni Core rounds for serious considerations.

You are free to figure that extra 20% will be wasted. I'm free to figure it might come in handy. Different strokes for different folks.

power pistol,AA #7 and some Vihtavouri powders will do it. may have to load them LONG. try looking up 9x21 loads Lymans 48th has them.

most of the book load data uses very short 9x19 loads. 9x19 Maximum OAL is 1.169.

powerpistol will produce just shy of 1100fps with standard p pressure. the recoil impulse imo is nicer than most 115gr loads though could just be me I like shooting 40sw. 4" Barrel S&W sigma

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the recoil impulse imo is nicer than most 115gr loads though could just be me I like shooting 40sw. 4" Barrel S&W sigma

I thought I was the only one who noticed the difference so I didn't mention it. That being said how hard could these loads be on the gun? The .38 Super runs at higher velocities on the same platform. The same Colt I have would also run as a .38 Super with a barrel change. I checked the Vihtavuori data and even though it appears to give the highest velocities there is no pressure data listed. Hard to compare one powder to another without pressure data. Anyone use Herco? How good is it in various calibers. Someday I hope to run some loads over the chronograph and get some answers. In the mean time I'm writng down all this good info. Does anyone notice how all these threads turn into a discussion of terminal velocity on bad guys. What fun. I just hope we don't have to really find out. 9MM 147JHP 1000fps. Bruce

Herco may not be a good choice for the 9mm, Bruce. It is kind of bulky like Unique and will fill the case quickly. I have used Unique in the 9mm but just for real light plinking stuff. 4.4gr under the 147gr Ranier FP and RN. Both shot well but had low velocities, around 850fps if I remember right.