it was starting to bug me that my collection of resize dies for 45ACP all resize the cases too much. my Federal cases measure .472" at the base and reloaded cases measure .473". my three dies resize the cases from .466-.468, which seems excessive to me. i dont like the slight step from .468 to .472 above the base, but resizing that much requires much more force during the resizing phase, which increases the force needed for the down stroke of my progressive press, which is performing 4 steps at once. (because the cases require different resizing forces during resizing portion of the progressive down stroke, the distance the dies travel downward is affected by the tough versus easy cases, which in turn affects the seating depth and crimp) so, i searched through my dies for one that would do a better job. my rifle resizers (.308Win, .250 Savave Imp, 6mm Rem, .30-'06) were way too tight, but, surprising to me, the die which resizes them to .472 at the base and .469 at the mouth is.... a Hornady seater die for .308Win. it require an extra step, including lubrication of the cases, but it makes the trip thru the progressive much easier and produces better ammunition.

i have similar experience with my .38 Special ammo.

do any of you have a resizer which resizes the cases just enough and not too much, preferably with a slight taper??

quote:

resizing that much requires much more force during the resizing phase, which increases the force needed for the down stroke of my progressive press, which is performing 4 steps at once. (because the cases require different resizing forces during resizing portion of the progressive down stroke, the distance the dies travel downward is affected by the tough versus easy cases, which in turn affects the seating depth and crimp)

That last part puzzles me....
If you run the press all the way down to the mechanical hard stop, what kind of press seats to different depths depending on the case sizing force?

I actually bought some 45acp brass once (don't know what came over me), and all of my 45AR. I've loaded some of that brass a whole lot of times, and never gotten that ridge just above the base. I do get it on some range brass. I only load for revolvers. Most of my range brass has been through bottom feeders, including those plastic things with a name that sounds like somebody's upchucking. I suspect the ridge is due to excessive case deformation in guns that don't support the base very well, and that dies don't matter much.

Yeah, what pinky said!

In the 45ACP I’m simply not buying the unsupported case contention. I measured the chambers of barrels from examples being a S&W 4506, S&W 99, S&W 1911, Springfield 1911, Colt 1911 and last but not least a Glock 21(OEM barrel & Barsto barrel). The 45ACP is relatively low pressure round. All the barrels show a portion of the case unsupported (The Glock OEM barrel more so than others). I’ve had no problems reloading cases and using those cases interchanged in all the previously mentioned pistols.

If it were the 40S&W I would concur concerning the unsupported theory.

I've seen that ridge you're talking about but only in brass that I've loaded so much I can no longer read the head stamp. Btw, they still work in my 1911s, but they will not chamber in any 45acp revolver I've tried them in. I guess there's just a time to recycle brass. Darn!

Sgt Preston here. I simply avoid all Glock fired cases, simply because of the unsupported barrel issues. I simply haven't had any problems & don't want any. And I have 3000 rounds of 45ACP cases so I can be choosey. However realistically "most" of the Glock "problems" seem to have been with 40 caliber ammo. I have never bought a single piece of new brass & have reloaded my used "range" 45ACP cases "LOTS" of times. I load on a Dillon 550 & use Dillon dies. There doesn't seem to be any issues with my brass & all my finished rounds fit nicely into my case gage & consequently the chamber of my PC 945. I've just measured some of my loaded 45ACP rounds. I've taken 3 readings of 10 shells, the 1st reading is right next to extractor groove, the 2nd is mid way up the brass & the 3rd is at the end of the brass next to the bullet. Here are the readings:
round 1 .473, .470, .469
round 2 .472, .470, .4695
round 3 .473, .470. .4695 cad plated brass
round 4 .4735, .470, .4695
round 5 .4735, .470, .4695
round 6 .473, .469, .470
round 7 .473, .470, .4695
round 8 .472, .469, .4695
round 9 .475, .470, .470
round 10 .476, .469, .470
This was a random sampling taken for a 50 round range ready load box. I rechecked all 10 round in my Dillon case gage, & all rounds dropped in without any assistance. In that box of 50, there were 9 different head stamps. Hope this helps. Sgt Preston USMC LLA

The barrels shown left to right are S&W 4506, Barsto G21, OEM G21, and S&W 99. All of these barrels to some degree are unsupported throated for feeding. Measuring the chamber at its major diameter the S&W 4506 is the largest of the four barrels. At this point I’m not going to disassemble the 1911 pistols but all are throated which leaves an unsupported case area with the examples being Colt, Springfield, and S&W.

i love your responses. and i am greateful for them.

let me say this again: the heads of the cases are not expanding at the head, and they are certainly not blowing out there, either. the case heads measure .472 which is under the size of the case show in my old Speer manual. of course the cases are expanding above the head,to fill the chambers of my BarSto barrel and my SW625 cylinder.

i measured a dozen fired cases from both handguns: the largest case body diameter was .475, and most were .473-.474.

the cases are not becoming grossly enlarged, it's just that the resizer reduces them to .468". (also, to address the pressure question: force needed to fully seat the primers is normal) when i resize to .468, even in a single stage press, the force required is much larger than the force needed to resize just to .472 with a slight taper.

about that hard stop, OKFX05. the press is a twenty year C-H Auto-Champ Mark IVA. if i set the resizer to permit the press to travel to the hard stop every time, then some of my cases are not resized completely, some federall and most TZZ. yes, the linkage might be a bit worn and loose.

for pinkeymingeo: i do not get a ridge (or bulge, if i may) just above the base. above the head, i get a slight reduction of diameter during resizing. a ridge on the case head would tell me to check and perhaps reduce my powder charge.

for Parson Colt: i would suggest that you are not resizing properly or crimping properly if you reloaded cartridges don't fit into your revolver. are the primers seated flush with the base of the case? i have worked thru those problems myself during the past 6 months. it also helps that S&W replaced the cylinder on the 625, free.

for Sgt Preston: what resizer do you use that resizes the body of the case to .470? i gots to know.

do any of you think that the .466-.468 resized diameter is ok?

Randy I use standard Dillon 45ACP Dies. The only adjustment that can be made is how low (close) to the "star wheel" where the wheel can still turn. I set it as close as I can & I guess this to be .005-.010. Preston

Dennis thanks for the great picture. The picture really do show how similar all the barrels are. BUT to the best of my knowledge only Glock hase the stigma of "higher" numbers of kabooms. Everything I read about Glock kabooms cites "unsupported barrels" as being the culprit. Photos of Glock Kabooms that I have seen, show the location of the "blowout" is always in the unsupported are of the shell casing. Somewhere it has also been written (& I don't remember anymore where I read it anymore) that reloaders should avoid Glock fired brass due to bulged or distorted (weakened) casings. At least that's the way I honestly remember it. Two last thoughts: #1 KABOOM = "an explosion outside of the confines of the chamber" = weakened, unsupported area of the brass. #2 Google "Glock Kabooms" there are videos of kabooms as they occur & lots of text. Preston

Sarge,
Friendly advice, don't waste your typing skills to rebut our fellow jarhead. Do you have a Bible around there? Proverbs 26:4 would be a good place to look, I'm not name calling as that is wrong but the last part may apply!


Now, on to the question at hand. Too small of a case after sizing. Here is the experiment I tried. I took two different fired cases, from the same Glock 21, and resized them. The one on my Dillon Square Deal and the other on my Lee Classic Turret press with Lee dies.

Before sizing both measured .477" at the case head. There was no visible bulge and I would tend to agree with Dennis on the point of 40 vs 45. That makes a lot of sense. Now after sizing, with both dies affectively going to the shell plate, I got quite different measurements. I am surprised to say the least.

The Dillon Square Deal die turned out a case that measures .4745" (used a micrometer instead of a caliper). The case that was resized in the Lee die measures .4702". Quite a difference! Now to me that is a good thing for shooting out of semi-autos. I want the case to chamber as easily as possible. The factory ammo I measured is .4742". I say that you need to try some different dies OR lube every 10th case. either one will take care of the problem.


p.s. I have had a KABOOM and it wasn't in a Glock. Although it was from a firearm that had an unsupported barrel.

quote:

Originally by Sgt Preston
Everything I read about Glock kabooms cites "unsupported barrels" as being the culprit. Photos of Glock Kabooms that I have seen, show the location of the "blowout" is always in the unsupported are of the shell casing. Somewhere it has also been written (& I don't remember anymore where I read it anymore) that reloaders should avoid Glock fired brass due to bulged or distorted (weakened) casings. At least that's the way I honestly remember it. Two last thoughts: #1 KABOOM = "an explosion outside of the confines of the chamber" = weakened, unsupported area of the brass. #2 Google "Glock Kabooms" there are videos of kabooms as they occur & lots of text. Preston

My only experience with Glock is in the 45ACP & 9mm Luger. The problematic area appears to be with the S&W 40 in particular and the 45ACP to some extent.

A reference book you may want to obtain is (ISBN0-9662517-4-1) The Glock in Competition A Shooters How to Guide 2nd Ed by Robin Taylor with Bobby Taylor and Mark Passamaneck, P.E. TY40422.

Mark Passamaneck a registered Professional Engineer provides rather excellent insights and answers to problematic issues with the Glock.

No, no, I said I agree with your position Dennis!

What I was joking about, and totally my fault for not coming across as that, forgive me, is the ability to change your mind on a subject!

It was meant to be light hearted teasing, much like what has gone on in other threads between fellow jarheads.

I apologize in the extreme for any offense caused by my statements invoking scripture. It was totally in jest and I should know better, please forgive me.

quote:

about that hard stop, OKFX05. the press is a twenty year C-H Auto-Champ Mark IVA. if i set the resizer to permit the press to travel to the hard stop every time, then some of my cases are not resized completely, some federall and most TZZ. yes, the linkage might be a bit worn and loose.

To your original question, then, I think your problems would completely disappear with a new Dillon press set up from the factory with Dillon .45 dies. Equipment does eventually wear out, and that kind of variability is unacceptable to me for my loading presses.

If you ever manage to wear out the Dillon, it comes with a lifetime FREE warranty on all repairs and overhauls.