Well, I took some time early today for doing my testing. Just like a kid with a new toy!

I took some of the loads that I developed and combined them with some other tests. I hope this doesn't bore anyone.

One test is the normal type of thing. Same load, different primers. Another test is same load, same primers, different alloy for the bullets. The other test is same exact loads in different firearms, one a wheelgun, the other an auto-feeder.


So here goes:

The first test was with my duplication load of Elmer Keith's 45AR. He suggested a load of 14gr of 2400 with a 240gr Keith bullet. So, awhile back I ran some with Winchester Large Pistol Primers (WLP from here on)over the chronograph.
Here are the results from that test on the 19Aug08.
240gr LSWC
45AR Brass
WLP
M625JM
Low 1020fps
High 1045fps
Avg. 1029fps
ES 25fps
SD 10fps
Good results. I did test these before with Federal primers and had some poor numbers.
Now on to the WOLF Large Pistol Primers (WOLF from here on out)
Low 952fps
High 1051fps
ES 105fps
SD 35.87
As a point of interest, the WOLF performed just like the Federals. My perception is it is because they aren't as hot as the WLP, seeing that the WLP are for magnum rounds too. This load can be raised a little, .5gr maximum, in increments of .1gr in my opinion. That is not to be construed as a recommendation for others to do it. I may not, then again I may, if I do I will post that in another thread.

Now, on to the "normal" type of target rounds!
The bullets are home cast from two different alloys. One being pure range lead, the other a 50/50 mix of range lead and wheelweights. The mold is one that I am likely going to send back to Lee as the bullets it casts are .003" out of round. That is a little much for my liking. I can tell you two things about this mold though. #1, The bullets FLY out of this mold when opened, I like that. #2, With the 6 cavity mold you can cast a bunch of bullets in a hurry, I like that too! I just must have gotten one made on a Friday before a long weekend!
The bullets were unsized, that suggestion came from forum member "imashooter2", and lubed with White Label Liquid Xlox. I forgot to mention that all of the loads tested today were of acceptable accuracy from the firearms I shot them from. I would have no problem using any of them in action style competition. One big hole @ 15yrds shot 2 handed from support.
All of the rounds had the same powder and weight, 4.7gr AA#2, a powder that is quickly moving up my usage list. I'll tell you how much I like this powder, it may replace my competition rounds where I use Bullseye! If you knew me well, that would surprise you!

OK, Here is the data.
M625JM Soft bullets WLP
Low 747.2fps
High 792.1fps
Avg 758.6fps
ES 44.89fps
SD 17.02fps

M625JM Soft bullets WOLF
Low 710.7fps
High 731.5fps
Avg 723.9fps
ES 20.74
SD 9.11fps

Taurus PT1911 Soft bullets WLP
Low 770.6fps
High 794.4fps
Avg 784.0fps
ES 23.82fps
SD 8.66fps

Taurus PT1911 Soft bullets WOLF
Low 737.2fps
High 761.3fps
Avg 748.2fps
ES 24.11fps
SD 8.06fps

Very acceptable numbers all the way around. I checked after each group to see how leading was doing and there was no perceptible deposits in the barrel of either firearm. There were two misfeeds in the auto, the only two I have ever had with this firearm, with the softer bullets. They deformed going up the feed ramp enough that they wouldn't chamber all of the way. I removed them and fired them in the revolver.

Now on to the harder bullets. The same mold but with a mix of 50/50 range lead to wheelweights.

M625JM 50/50 bullets WLP
Low 735.4fps
High 767.8fps
Avg 747.3fps
ES 32.42fps
SD 11.61fps

M625JM 50/50 bullets (WOLF)
Low 735.5fps
High 790.7fps
Avg 757.7fps
ES 55.21fps
SD 21.54fps

Taurus PT1911 50/50 bullets WLP
Low 771.5fps
High 795.1fps
AVG 787.6fps
ES 23.62fps
SD 7.93fps

Taurus PT1911 50/50 bullets WOLF
Low 772.5fps
High 782.6fps
Avg 776.5fps
ES 10.14fps
SD 3.6fps


I know this is a lot of data to assimilate but I want to hear what you have to say about it. I have some opinions but would like you to chime in and have some input on the testing. If you come up with a suggestion for more testing I am open to doing that. So, the ball is in your court, so to speak!

Believe it or not, I forgot something. In the auto with those two jams. I took the firearm apart on the range and ran a nylon brush down the barrel at the end of the testing. All in all I ran about 50 rounds down this gun. There was some dirt and nasty stuff in there BUT with just two passes with the brush, 95% of it came out. The only exception what actually in the chamber where a twisting motion was needed to get all the gunk out of it. Not bad though, especially with lead bullets. Kind of debunks the idea that when you shoot lead you get great big globs of the stuff in your barrel. Nothing can be further from the truth.
OK, I'm done!

I even forgot something else! I'M HAVING SEVERAL SENIOR MOMENTS COUPLED TOGETHER! SORRY!
The first thing I noticed was that there was no need to put the Wolf primers in the flipper! They come with the anvil up in the box, turn it over and viola, you can start loading your Dillon pickup tubes just like that! Of course, as a creature of habit, I loaded the flip tray, turned it over and noticed not one of the primers were in the right presentation. I thought DUH, they were already to use stupid!

At any rate, thought I would add that!

Great info! I've had nothing but good results with wolf primers. Standard Dev and Extreme Spread were always respectable, and they go bang every time.

The only time i think i've ever had an issue with wild spreads was actually with 2400. To get it to burn at least halfway consistent, I've always had to load them pretty hot with magnum or rifle primers.

Thanks, Pinger!

I had the 2400 problems go away once I started using WLP primers. The are supposed to be good for both standard and magnum loads. They are obviously hotter, but that won't matter for target type loads. Those are 95% of what I load for anyway.

Good data Skip. The very low SD's in the Taurus PT1911 is interesting.

The 2400 data is also enlightening. I had not used the Wolf primers in any magnum loads, still having a few thousand WLP's. Your data shows the Wolf's are standard heat. Kind of what I expected.

A couple questions. 1st, do you notice any difference in seating effort? (I find they take a little more oomph, measuring .001" larger than WLP.) 2nd, do you feel they are any more sensitive? (I've got a 625-6 that doesn't like WLP, but is 100% with Wolf)

quote:

Originally posted by MrPhil:
Good data Skip. The very low SD's in the Taurus PT1911 is interesting.

The 2400 data is also enlightening. I had not used the Wolf primers in any magnum loads, still having a few thousand WLP's. Your data shows the Wolf's are standard heat. Kind of what I expected.

A couple questions. 1st, do you notice any difference in seating effort? (I find they take a little more oomph, measuring .001" larger than WLP.) 2nd, do you feel they are any more sensitive? (I've got a 625-6 that doesn't like WLP, but is 100% with Wolf)

Phil,
The Taurus has been a pleasant surprise to be quite honest. I misspoke earlier about the jams. I have actually had 3, one was magazine related, and the two feeding problems from the softer bullets. I have shot this thing a lot too. Almost every Tuesday night in PPC competition. I have shot the highest score ever shooting it. I'm very pleased.

To answer your questions: Yes, they are harder to seat. I kind of like that to be honest because it slows me down, makes me "feel" the primer seating more.

As far as being more sensitive, I'm not sure yet. That is a test that needs to be done. I too have had problems with my M625JM going off with WLPs. I installed an extended firing pin from Cylinder and Slide and that helped some. Switching to Federal primers solved the problem, kind of. When they got hard to get though I did something else to help. The trigger came from the factory really nice and light. It was as smooth as any Smith I have ever shot, even ones with trigger jobs. What I did made the trigger pull a little stiffer but I haven't had a misfire since doing it. What did I do? I took the anvil out of a spent primer and put it under the strain screw. It has a heavier trigger pull but they all go off!

I will run a test soon though by removing it. I want to know too! Thanks for your suggestion and comments.

I hope more folks drop in and share a little thought provoking discussion.

Well, Wolf primers seem to provide satisfactory performance. Now, the question is where to find them without having to buy 5000 by mail order!

quote:

Originally posted by epj:
Well, Wolf primers seem to provide satisfactory performance. Now, the question is where to find them without having to buy 5000 by mail order!

You won't want to have less than 5000 shipped to you because there is a $20 hazmat fee. That is spread out over 5000 versus 1000 which is quite a price savings.

quote:

Originally posted by smith crazy:

quote:

Originally posted by epj:
Well, Wolf primers seem to provide satisfactory performance. Now, the question is where to find them without having to buy 5000 by mail order!

You won't want to have less than 5000 shipped to you because there is a $20 hazmat fee. That is spread out over 5000 versus 1000 which is quite a price savings.

That's exactly what I'm refering to. I need to find someone carrying them locally or at a gunshow.

Skip, the old primer cup under the strain screw trick, eh? I had done that with my 625-6 to get 100% function with WLP. Pulled it out when I got the Wolf LP's and was very pleasantly surprised.

As far as Federals, I never liked their packaging and really objected to their price. I bought a thousand and when they were gone never bought more. Not having to flip the Wolf's is icing on the cake.

epj - are you looking for a small quantity for load evaluation? Frankly, I start to get nervous when my stock drops below 10K and get positively twitchy when I get below 5K.