Hi rozenbem. Sgt Preston here. Yes indeed tumbling & keyholing are the same thing to the best of my knowledge. They show up as an elongated & or torn hole on a target as opposed to a nice round hole. Sgt Preston USMC LLA.

Thank you, Sgt.

Here is another question that bothered me for awhile. People often talk about different loads being more or less accurate. I wonder if they mean gross inaccuracies like in bullets keyhole and fan out all over the target or slight variations like 1" groups vs. 1 1/4" groups.

Mike

If you can keep DEWC right around 700fps they won't keyhole. I've found this to be the "magic" speed for em.

Chief38,
What is your most accurate powder and charge with the 158-grain RN bullets?

I use mostly 148gr DEWC's with 3.8grs of Red Dot. Nice mild load, very accurate, with no leading.

The only problem is Red Dot is a dirty powder at this weight and leaves a mess to clean.

I got 4 pounds of Red Dot for $59 and had to find a use for it. So I started using it in my 38/357 loads.

I tried 4.5grs of it in my 45's but it's to hard to clean compared to W231.

I shoot a 686PP in Bullseye, and tested many rounds in the gun and with a 148gr HBWC with 3.5 of Titegroup it will punch a one hole target at 25 yards when shot from a ranson rest. Every gun is going to like what it eat's just like us, so a load for my gun mite not work for yours. If you have some pal's that will give you 20 bullet's of each type to test with, you may fine the best load. The club that I belong to would have a test day just to work up loads for our guns, it was a blast.

I have just recently been playing with 38 Spec, 148 HBWC for a Colt Officers Model Target I had acquired. I had always loaded 2.8 gr. bullseye for my Mod 52-2, and it was always accurate. The Colt didn't like it as much, and I found 3.2 gr. 231 to be pretty good. Then I tried some 158 gr. cast RNFP loads and got better accuracy. My "old" Lyman cast bullet loading manual had 4.9 gr. 231 as potentially the most accurate load, and I had to try it. 4.9 Gr. 231; Win Small Pistol Primer; OAL 1.465"; W-W brass; chrono @906 fps and gave 1 1/2" to 2" groups @ 25 yds. with my 686, but the Colt didn't like it, shot closer to 3 1/4". I need to maesure the rate of twist in both to see what the difference is, and or bore size.

For what it's worth, I have chronographed my HBWC load through a 4" .357 Magnum revovler. My six-shot average was 701 ft/sec, with a high of 717, and a low of 682. The load is 2.4 grains of Bullseye behind a Remington soft lead HBWC, sightly countersunk, with a CCI 550 primer. I do not resize these cases. I just bell them slightly, load them up, and use just enough crimp to take out the bell, plus just a tad more.

This load has never keyholed, and is the most consistent shooting load I've tried. The velocity in a 2" revolver was right at 625 ft/sec, if memory serves.

Groups with this load are the best I've gotten with either gun, but they are about a half inch high at 10 yards, and about an inch and a half high at 25 yards. I learned to compensate with a different hold. With 2.8 grains of Bullseye my groups open up a bit with the two guns I have, but they group around the X ring. This may not be the case with your guns, but I offer my experience for information.

i found that shooting 158gr speer lswc are equally as accurate as their 148gr wadcutter in my 14-3. the swc can be pushed slightly faster, making it a better small game bullet, in my opinion.

I've had good results with a 148 gr. DEWC from Tennessee Valley Bullets and 3.0 gr. Bullsye in my 6" Model 19.

By way of trying things out I loaded a bunch of 150g BBWC that I cast out of WW over 15.5g W296 and I found them to drill the target up to 20 yards W/O keyholing. They were as accurate as my other 160 and 170 grain Keiths.

Typically I load them in a magnum case over 5g W231 for what I believe to be @ 900fps. Very nice round to shoot.

Another bullet that works well in my K 38's is the RCBS 38 150KT. This bullet weighs about the same as the HBWC Remington and shoots to the same point of impact. I load 3.5 grains of 231 for a target load and use Lil'gun for hunting loads. Accuracy of this bullet is better than the 358429 Lyman or 158 round nose in my guns. I alloy it about 1/3 linotype and size .357.

I have found the Hornady offerings of swaged lead bullets in the red boxes of 300 work well with Trail Boss powder at the manufacturer suggested loading levels.

You won't win any velocity contests, but it is impossible to double charge and not notice and it burns clean and gentle. I get @650 out of a 2" barrel and @720 out of a 4" barrel using 4.0 grains.