Will my .38 +P cases handle magnum primers and magnum level powder charge (to be shot in a 686), or do I need to use .357 cases. Just don't want to readjust all the dies in the turret every time if not necessary. Thanks.

.357 cases are approximately 1/10" longer than .38 Special cases. Putting the same load in a shorter case can raise pressures dangerously. NOT A GOOD IDEA!

Load .38 +P loads in .38 cases and .357 loads in .357 cases.

Dale53

It's not a question of case strength. A .38 Spl case will hold most or all of a magnum load of powder, but it is a terrifically BAD idea to make loads like that.

For one thing, you or someone else may end up firing those loads in a lightweight .38 Spl and wreck the gun. For another, the .38 Spl case is .0135" shorter than the .357 Magnum case, and seating a bullet fully will compress the powder charge, possibly to dangerous pressures. That M686 is a stoutly build gun, but even it can be shot loose firing overpressure loads.

Due to cartridge overall length and total cartridge internal space 357 loads are NOT safe in the 38 Special cartridge.

The Classic Elmer Keith load for 357 was his 172 grain SWC in a 38 case with 13.5 grains of 2400 powder. Crimp was in the normal crimp groove.

In 357 cases he went to 15.0 grains of 2400 with the same bullet with crimping over the front sholder of the bullet as in the 357 case the load was too long to fit the cylinder of the original 357 Mags if the crimping groove was used.

Due to the front sholder of the bullet being outside the case he reported that the loads done in 38 cases were the most accurate. As I recall he also used the same 38 cased load in the 38-44 Outdoorsman.

One of the quickest ways to increase pressures with smokeless powders is to decrease the cartridge airspace with a given load, particularly with the faster powders.

This is what Elmer said, but pay particular attention to "IMPORTANT".

quote:

Originally posted by Paul5388:
This is what Elmer said, but pay particular attention to "IMPORTANT".

Sir, when's this from? Some specific powder charges differ from those in the 1961 edition of "Sixguns." I presume the scan is more recent than that?

Thanks, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

quote:

One of the quickest ways to increase pressures with smokeless powders is to decrease the cartridge airspace with a given load, particularly with the faster powders.

+1.

I'll give you some 357 cases if that's what it takes.


Okie John

I have some washers that are the same thickness as the difference between .38 and .357 cases, which allows changing calibers between .38 and .357 simply by inserting or removing the washers from under the dies. You don't need one under the size die.
I've had these washers for over 30 years, and don't know a commercial source off hand.

You REALLY need to put .357 loads in .357 cases.

Arbitrarily loading one cartridge to another's data is a big no no and not to be done. If you want modern day 357mag performance from your 38spl look for data from yesteryear and the 38/44 type of loads. You will get real near the type of loads you want but with data designed for that case and firearm. I know this is still a big no no to some. That's fine. There are folks that have done it for over 30 years with no ill affects though. Loading the 44spl to 44mag data is a bad idea too. You can find Elmer's old 44spl loads though and load them and get real close to new 44mag performance. Mostly because, like the 357/38 they have dumbed down data so bad due to legal concerns.
FWIW

quote:

I have some washers that are the same thickness as the difference between .38 and .357 cases, which allows changing calibers between .38 and .357 simply by inserting or removing the washers from under the dies. You don't need one under the size die.
I've had these washers for over 30 years, and don't know a commercial source off hand.

You REALLY need to put .357 loads in .357 cases.

At one time or maybe still done RCBS sold their 38Spl/357Mag die sets with spacer rings.

Okay. Thanks for the warnings. I'll stick to .357 cases for .357 loads.

Ron,

The quote from Elmer was in the early 1980s, not too long before he died. I copied the image when a friend posted it on another forum.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul5388:
Ron,

The quote from Elmer was in the early 1980s, not too long before he died. I copied the image when a friend posted it on another forum.

Sir, thanks for the info.

Semper Fi,

Ron H.

.38 Specials loaded to the same pressure level as a .357 load will be fine -- as long as the gun is up to it. But, to take a load recipe meant for a .357 case and put it in a .38 Special case is asking for trouble -- reduced case volume means prssures will be over .357 Magnum levels, and maybe WAY over.

There is much published data for 38-44 loads, many of if loaded to near 357 ballistics. Just search for it. Just make sure to use loads for 38-44 not 357 loads as noted above.

I would still use 357 brass just so you will never accidentally load those hot 38's in a gun not intended for them. You may not have one now, but down the road you may get a model 36 or such, then you'll have all this hot ammo floating around.....just asking for problems.