I just got a NIB Model 22-4 yesterday and, of course, will be reloading for it. I have a few questions for you more experienced hands:

1. Is load data for the ACP and AR interchangeable?

2. Can I use say a Keith style 265 grain or an Oregon Trail 255 grain SWC with the ACP and AR or will they seat too deep in the case? I will be using only hard cast when I reload lead bullets in the 22-4 due to the shallow rifling.

3. Does anyone have any "pet" loads for these calibers in the 900-1000 FPS range?

Thanks to any and all who have some good advice.

Loads for .45 ACP and AR are interchangeable. I've never used the bullets you mention, but you might check John Taffin's article on the subject:

http://www.americanhandgunner.com/CTT508.html

Thanks Moxie. That info trom JT was just what I needed.

We are currently discussing this same issue on another site. I am testing some of Elmer's loads with 2400 with a 240gr LSWC of his design. They are a handful from the M625JM, that's for sure!

Let me caution you about something though. If you use 45ACP loads in 45AR brass that isn't going to be a problem. It is using the data the other way around. If you load to some of the higher end 45AR loads and put them in 45ACP cases and run them say, in a Glock 21 or something else with an unsupported chamber, there MAY be problems. I'm not sure I would want to do it in a 1911 either, to be honest.

There is a member here that has some pet loads for the bullet you mention. He'll be along soon I would imagine!

CALLING PAUL5388!

One other problem you may run into with the ACP cases and the heavy bullet loads is crimping. The ACP round headspaces on the case mouth while AR round headspaces on the rim. The heavy loads will probably need a roll crimp to prevent bullet jump with recoil; the roll crimp could cause excessive headspace or failures to fire in the ACP cases.

I've always preferred AR cases for revolvers, although I've used ACP cases with light loads and a taper crimp.

Smith Crazy said:

Let me caution you about something though. If you use 45ACP loads in 45AR brass that isn't going to be a problem. It is using the data the other way around. If you load to some of the higher end 45AR loads and put them in 45ACP cases and run them say, in a Glock 21 or something else with an unsupported chamber, there MAY be problems. I'm not sure I would want to do it in a 1911 either, to be honest.


Thanks for that caution SC. After reading JT's article on the .45 AR and not having any AR brass on hand (any ideas other than Midway USA? They seem to always be backordered.) I am planing to use his load of a 255 grain OT SWC with 7 grains of Unique. He reports 944 FPS for that load which is exactly what I'm looking for. He was shooting a 22-4 for that particular load.

HKSmith, I wondered about crimping but I've not seen a crimped .45 ACP round before. I am going to observe these first rounds I load carefully to check for signs of pressure as well as the bullet trying to "jump".

I hope Paul5388 chimes in with his pet loads. I need all the input I can get here!

The only time a roll crimp will play a part with the headspacing issue is if you were to try to either shoot them without moon clips in a revolver or, like I said before, shooting them in a semi-automatic that HAS to headspace on the case mouth. Otherwise it is of no consequence. You can roll crimp an ACP case and run them all day long in your revolver as long as you use moon clips, been there, done that!

The 7 grains of Unique sounds like a good load. Elmer said 6gr would make a light load with a 240gr though. An remember, some folks seem to think all he shot was "flame thrower" types of rounds!

At any rate, Kevin, be safe and have fun!

Make sure you know how to distinguish crimp type before you attempt loading either one!

Sorry for the delay, it finally rained, so I had to start mowing again.

First, I never use a roll crimp and I never have a problem with bullet movement. That's even with some pretty healthy .45 Super loads.

Second, I don't know that I would load more than 13.0 gr of 2400 with the 255 gr OT LSWC. That load is 1040 fps out of my M625 and I think it's due to the depth it has to be seated to, if you use the crimping groove for the proper depth.

I am currently loading a Lee 200 gr SWC for light loads and it shoots pretty good with 8.0 gr of SR 4756.

For heavier loads, I use the RCBS .45-255-KT, or the very similar NEI .45-255-SWC, but they actually cast at about 270 gr with my alloy. 13.0 gr of 2400 will produce 960 fps with those bullets.

The 255 gr OT will clock at about 860 fps using 7.0 gr of SR 4756 and a 230 gr Golden Saber (GS) will do about 840 fps with that same load.

13.5 gr of 2400 with the 255 gr OT will be a little over 1100 fps.

I've hit 1140 fps with SR 4756 and the 230 gr GS. 10.0 gr will do about 1050 fps.

For mundane loads that will do fine in a 1911, I use 5.0 gr of Bullseye with a bullet of some sort.

Paul, in your experience will the 22-4 handle the 13.5 gr 2400/255 gr OT SWC? If I used this load is would definately not be a steady diet for the big Smith.

So far I like the sound of that load and the Taffin loasd of 7 gr Unique/255 gr OT SWC for over 900 FPS.

Thanks for your help Paul! I appreciate it.

Kevin,

I don't have a M22 of any sort, and haven't even seen one, so I really can't say what it'll be able to stand. Of course, it is an "N" frame S&W, so it's probably tougher than what people give it credit for.

However, I think big loads need a substantial gun, so I would really prefer 13.5 gr of 2400 in a 5" M625.

There really isn't too much need in more than 1000 fps when you're using a 255 gr bullet. The .45 Colt has done right well on less than that and it has been doing it for over 100 years.

What I was loading tonight was 8.0 gr of SR 4756 with that Lee 200 gr SWC, basically a duplicate of factory loads with a better bullet.

Thanks Paul! You have been a great help! (So has everyone else) Y'all take care and I will too.

Paul,
thanks for stepping in,I was telling Kevin the same thing about the model 22,I don't own one and the closest thing I have to it are my old 1917s,these are fine old guns,but I'm shy to shoot my 255 Keith on top of 14.5grains of 2400 through them,I'm afraid I'd ruin these old revolvers at this velocity and pressure,now the 25-2s and 625,roll them and shoot them.2 loads you may want to try Kevin in the lighter bullets will be the Hornady 185XTP over 8.5 grains of Unique(this my favorite deer round)in either case acp/ar.Or the 200 grain Hornady XTP on top of 8 grains of Unique,both are +p but these will be safe out of your 22,I've shot these through the 1917s with no problems,if your looking for a 230 load try the 230 grain Golddot on top of 7.3 grains of Unique,I think you'll be pleased.
Equalizer

Kevin,
As of 8:27am eastern time this morning www.wideners.com has 8 100 round bags of Remington Auto Rim virgin brass for 21.50 a bag.
Equalizer

You can also buy Starline brass direct from their web site $85 for 500. I have used them and they are excellent brass. Remington brass has also worked well for me.

BTW Kevin, this is what I shoot. The bullets are 270 gr NEI.



As a generic statement, too many are wanting to "magnumize" their non-magnum guns. While some can easily handle the extra pressure, some can't. Besides, there really isn't too much need in magnums, if you have a decent bullet.

The bullets don't have to be 500 gr "Hammer of Thor" types, just a good Keith type with sufficient weight will be enough to do the job.

Here's an article by Marshall Stanton (Beartooth Bullets) that explains why 1000-1100 fps is all you need.
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/index.htm