I took some time to get here and I spared you the boring details in between then and now!

I got to the load Elmer said he used in the 45AR for weight of 2400. I also switched to Winchester Large Pistol Primers. What I got for sure can be qualified as "FREIGHT TRAIN" ballistics! Consistency came right in there too, which is a pleasant surprise.

Here are the numbers:
LOW 1020fps
HIGH 1045fps
AVG 1029fps
ES 25fps
SD 10.29fps

There is something else I can tell you, this load was a real handful from the 4" bbl gun. Recoil was substantial but there were no signs at all of over pressure. No flattened primers, extraction was a breeze. I can't hunt deer in Indiana with this firearm/caliber but this would be a great load for pins or smaller type animals. Maybe up to 100lb deer at less than 50yds. They were also very accurate.

They would be good for self defense rounds as well as long as things got done on the first shot! Sight acquisition was a little difficult after each shot!

Skip;
Most deer are taken well under 75 yards. I wouldn't hesitate a New York minute to use these loads on a good sized deer (deer around here often go over 250 lbs). They will go "through and through" from any angle under seventy five yards (probably over 100 yards).

Dale53

quote:

Originally posted by Dale53:
Skip;
Most deer are taken well under 75 yards. I wouldn't hesitate a New York minute to use these loads on a good sized deer (deer around here often go over 250 lbs). They will go "through and through" from any angle under seventy five yards (probably over 100 yards).

Dale53

That's good to know!

They sure look awesome!

Using AA's published data I get 935fps from a 5" barrel with 12.0 AA9 at 14K CUP. This load should be safe even in older guns. Every time I decide I ought to jack this (very accurate) load up, I ask myself "what precisely am I going to shoot with this thing that won't fall down after being hit with that 255?" In answer, I just don't bother with anything hotter.

Yeah but pinky,
These are only 240gr'ers!

They work pretty well to be honest. One thing though, I'm not satisfied with the numbers from these loads. They returned to the same type of spreads that I first encountered with the 45ACP brass. I probably will make small increments and see what happens. I will NOT go over the Keith load by more than .8gr. Hopefully it will straighten out before that!

Here is a video though. I tried to get the recoil and the target all in one. It isn't very good quality but it is interesting, if I do say so myself!

Kevin,

I shoot the Oregon Trail 200 grain RNFP in my 25 and 625 in AR cases.

I am after easy shooting loads. With 5.0 grains of Trail Boss I get an average of 755 fps with SD of 6. Same bullet with 5.8 grains of W231 gives 935 average with SD of 36. Both from a 4 inch 625.

I shoot only revolvers in .45 and use the AR brass except for some ACP rounds which I loaded several years ago and use them in moon clips.

I load these in the Dillon 550. Hope this helps a bit.

Lafayne

A lot of great links....

It occurs to me Kevin Keith should have a little bit of advice as to work up to this load
or that load in 0.1 increments.... eh?

ALso the S&W 22 although an N-frame S&W sculpted the front part of the frame that surrounds the barrel in order to give it the look of Pre-WWII aka M1917 large frame S&Ws.
I'd like to see some micrometer measurements of
the 22 frame vs the 25 1955 Target vs the 625

ALso, some of y'all are quoting loads and velocities mentioning model numbers but NOT Bbl.
lengths.

All that said....

I have a 625 5" Bbl. - I have 1,000 .45 AR Starline brass on hand, and a bunch of bullets for loads. Just been affling. I have 400 rds of .45 AR with Leadhead 200 gr. SWC loaded to 1,025 FPS. Very accurate but it leads the barrel they're not gas checked.... live and learn eh?

I have some 60 rounds of .45 AR with the Barnes 225 gr. solid copper HP loaded to something over 900 FPS but need to chrono - hardest recoiling stuff I have though.

I think 255 gr. SWC at 900 fps plus is fine
for the .45 AR but why push the brass in the non-magnum - work on accuracy in double taps.

Just some thoughts.

Randall - bought the STarline .45 AR brass last Oct. - 2 or 3 week back order with Starline then, perhaps they make it when they get the order?

Very accurate but it leads the barrel they're not gas checked.... live and learn eh?

You do NOT need gas checks to avoid leading. All you need is a proper alloy (if you cast your own, WW's with 2%tin is my alloy) sized .452" with a good lube (I use White Label Red Carnauba but NRA 50/50 beeswax/Alox works just fine). I have two S&W 625's that have been shot a good bit in the last year that I have had them (couple or three thousand rounds) with not one trace of leading.

In fact, I seldom use gas checks even on my magnum revolvers. Under 1500 fps there is little need for them in revolvers.

FWIW
Dale53

quote:

Originally posted by Dale53:
Very accurate but it leads the barrel they're not gas checked.... live and learn eh?

You do NOT need gas checks to avoid leading. All you need is a proper alloy (if you cast your own, WW's with 2%tin is my alloy) sized .452" with a good lube (I use White Label Red Carnauba but NRA 50/50 beeswax/Alox works just fine).
Dale53

I couldn't agree more, Dale.
The only time I get any leading is when I use purchased bullets. Whether it is 160gr LRNFP or 250gr in the same configuration, I get leading. When I started casting my own the one thing I noticed right away was the fact that went away, at least in most calibers.

At 1000fps + from the loads mentioned above there was zero leading. Never used a gas check and I drive some of my 250gr EK 44mag loads to 1800fps from a Handi-Rifle.

The 200 gr. SWC I mentioned loaded to 1,025 FPS were purchased from Leadhead whichthey advertise as "Hardcast" I wonder if they publish theire alloy mix. I have about
400 of these loaded rounds. I also have 500 more of the same bullets, and 500 of the Leadhead 225 gr. TC-BB - got em last october, I checked the price Jan. 1 this year and .40 and .45 bullets went up a bit over 30% I also noticed they dropped the 200 gr. SWC which has a profile much like a H&G #68. It feeds fine in my S&W 1911. I've got 100 rds more of the 1,025 load in ACP. The gas check opinions I've read were handloaders on a different board, The High ROad or the 1911 Forum.

Randall

Any of y'all have experience with the
Barnes XPB HP bullets in .45 AR or .45 ACP?

I looked at the Barnes site and they don't offer the 160 bf. or is it 165 gr..45 XPB bullet for sale although they make it and sell it to CorBon which is used in their DPX line.

The .451 XPB solid copper bullets they do sell
include (last I checked ) - Barnes lists the I suppose recommended cartridge use for each bullet weight as follows:

185 gr. - .45 ACP
225 gr. - .45 Colt
250 gr. - .454 Casull
and unlike the above which have the big
gaping opening and deep cavity, a
200 gr. - .460 XVR which has a very pointed bullet tip - I'd predict Xtreme Penetration with that one. but back to the no mention
of the .45 AR the forgotten by some step sibling

Any loads or data for the .45 AR and the 225 gr. XPB?

Randall

Leadhead bullets are super hard. I have some 270gr 44's that are 22BNL, and lead badly at low velocities. As they move past 1000fps the leading gradually goes away. When loading them down, I use Alox. It works. I shoot LaserCast 45/200's at 1000fps with very little leading.

This thread brought back some fond memories of my 25-2. I never loaded a single .45 ACP case in mine. I always used Auto Rim cases with Unique or SR4756 under a Lyman/Ideal #452423. I also loaded a bunch of full wadcutters (they had a small crimp groove), but I can't recall the mold number.

The 57 and 29 were nigh impossible to get at reasonable prices (1972), so the the 25 from Brownell's ($135.00) was a deal. Always very accurate. One of the sweetest S&W's I've ever owned.

Kevin,
I tried the Oregon Trail 250gr round nose flat point over 6.0grs of Unique. Average of 11 shots was 946fps. Accuracy was good but I had leading in the first inch or so of the barrel. I think maybe the OT's are too hard and not slugging up. I would like to get a mould but after hearing some of the heavier slugs won't chamber in the M22 I'm still debating.

John

quote:

Originally posted by dutch harbor john:
Kevin,
I tried the Oregon Trail 250gr round nose flat point over 6.0grs of Unique. Average of 11 shots was 946fps. Accuracy was good but I had leading in the first inch or so of the barrel. I think maybe the OT's are too hard and not slugging up. I would like to get a mould but after hearing some of the heavier slugs won't chamber in the M22 I'm still debating.

John

John,
You do well to be concerned about the chambering issue. One thing I have had problems with in my M625JM is chambering rounds that look more like revolver ones than ones for the ACP. I do that on purpose. Revolver rounds are supposed to look different!
At any rate, the problem comes into play when the throats are of the same size or smaller than the last driving ban of the bullet or if the bullet is in the .453" range. You can do two things to take care of that usually. One is to crimp the bullet on the last driving band rather than in the crimp groove. Be careful with your powder charge when doing this as shortening the OAL can be dangerous if you are at maximum already. The second is to use a Lee Factory Crimp Die. In doing this you will almost always get the rounds to chamber better. There is one problem with this though. If you are trying to take advantage of the bigger bullet to seal up or slug up or obturate, you can lose the advantage by doing this. It actually resizes the bullet while in the case. Not a problem if that size will work. Using bullets that are too hard is a bad thing in this scenario as you have already noted.
I've been looking at one of those new M22's too. Even with the "evil" hole in the side they still look cool!