I acquired my first S&W with an IL this weekend. I read some of the threads about removing it and had an idea that I'd like to ask to some of you pros who know better than I how the IL works.

Namely, I was thinking of filling in and around the little key hole on the frame with a very good epoxy. This would prevent the external part of the IL (the little pin and barrel) from turning, but I don't know if it would make it so the internal part of the IL could also not possibly move and go into the "locked" position.

So, my question is: would locking the external part of the IL in place make it so the internal part of the IL was also physically not able to move into the "locked" position.

I'm not sure that using epoxy would hold the IL from vibration.

If I had an IL equipped revolver, I would file off the teat that engages the hammer and then fill the external keyhole with something that would match the color of the frame-like mixing black paint with epoxy for a blue gun.

Alphonso~

For all that, you're better off grinding off the nub that engages the lock....

see multiple threads on this forum for a HOWTO.

Gov,

Thanks. I did a search or two, but didn't find a good "how to" on removing the lock.

If you, or anyone else can link a thread, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.

I have pictures in the FAQ.

Just remove the lock arm, and down the road you want to sell the gun just re install it (so the new owner will have it working like it should).

Mr Nut,

Thank you for your help (here and in the lounge). Also, thank you for the pictures you posted some time ago.

Having your help, pondering this for a few days, and peering into my new IL 337, has enabled me to figure the whole thing out.

The IL (irrational lock) is a terrible design. The little flag moves independently of the keyed locking mechanism, permitting it to move into the locked position no matter what the position of the key barrel. In other words, the flag with it's little protruding "tit" is a free floating mass that can move on its own. Stupid, stupid, stupid to put a free floating mass in a machine (revolver) that is routinely subject to significant movement from recoil. The mass flops around, and you may just get a locked up revolver.

This is just about the dumbest engineering thing I've ever seen. I know this is old hat for you and many others here, but is new news to me as this is my first IL revolver.

Here is my plan, please, if you are in the mood advise me if it is a sound one:

1) Remove the "tit" from the flag with a dremel cut off wheel.
2) Apply some permanent lock tight between the flag and the frame, clamp into place until dry.
3) Apply some serious epoxy (black Marine-Tex) around the key barrel and INSIDE the key hole. This will prevent a key from ever being inserted into the key barrel, and preclude the possibility that anyone will ever think they have locked this gun when they have not.
4) Leave all the little lock parts where they are.
5) Use a permanent marker to cover the little "L" and counterclockwise arrow that are printed in white around the key barrel (I have a black PD gun).

I'm starting on this tomorrow. Jeez, if I'd wanted to risk my life on a hit or miss self defense gun, I'd be carrying my Kel-Tec...

In my personal opinion, if you are concerned about the lock, and because S&W will not sell these parts, the best option is to remove the lock arm and place it in a safe place (your gun box) then someday in the future, you can return it to it's original condition if you ever decide to sell it and nobody will know you ever disabled it.
If you could get the parts (I can't ) then I'd modify the locking arm by grinding the nub off, again saving a good one for possible resale. (After all why hurt the resale value if something is not working).

Some city folks like the lock believe it or not.

Good luck with your decision.

Again thanks. I'm not planning on selling this revolver.

I think I'll just grind the nub off and call it a day.

In fact, because the flag and its nub look like cheap pot metal, I'm going to try to take it off with a tiny saw blade and not even take the revolver apart.

Wish me luck...

Lots of luck. The flag is made out of tough material. I use a sanding drum on a dremel to get rid of them. Removing the flag is no biggie. It pulls right out. Installation is a little tougher, because the end of the "torque spring" must be inserted in the little hole in the frame. The small notch in the bottom of the flag is there for this purpose. You can fit a needle through the notch, pushing the spring into position.

pinkymingeo,

Thanks for that bit of information. Guess I'll have to take it apart after all...

OK, I took the 337 apart and managed to get it back together and working again. Works just fine.

First picture is the open revolver with the IL flag removed. Second picture is the flag in a small bench vice (as viewed through a lighted magnifier) preparing to have its little locking nub removed.

Thanks again to the folks who helped me understand how to do this.

I spent about $30 to have the lock hole filled, and the gap left by the flag silver soldered to fill in the flag - I think my gunsmith did a nice job on this 629, but you can see the spot if you look closely.

All my other internal lock guns simply got the flag stud removed as depicted above. $10 per gun seemed fair. The gunsmith was careful to dip the flag in water from time to time to not ruin the temper of the metal.

Take ALL the IL parts out of the gun and save them. Remnant IL parts have been reported on this site to have come loose in the gun and jam it completely. They are all unnecessary for the operation of the gun. They fit in an old 23mm film can - keep them undamaged and unchanged in the box or whatever. Then disregard the two additonal holes in the gun. It has plenty of other holes and slots anyway.