Ok, I think I've heard of this before. I found a complete box at a gun show today for $10. I couldn't resist. Anyone want to fill me in on what I think I know about this (LE ammo from the late 60s/early 70s I think I read in the past - but I may be wrong or my info was).

At the price of a lot of vintage .38 and .357 I saw at a show, it's cheaper to shoot older than new! (not that I would, but I'm buying it and keeping it for the novelty). I saw bundles of old S&W, Federal .38 for $10 and $12 per box of 50 (full boxes).

I know I should keep the box intact and all as it's full, but as I live in PC western Washington (for the moment), it makes me want to go find a Prius and see just what these babies will penetrate...

The box says 1410 fps and 700fpe (don't know what test barrel), but dang I'd like to put this to the test. I suggested to test it on our Calphalon tonight, but she said no...

This isn't a great comparison, but for what it's worth:

I had some of that ammo with me many years ago when I was shooting rifles and handguns at a steel plate (about 1/8" thick, IIRC). 55gr ball ammo from an AR-15--no steel penetrator, just jacketed lead--blew clean through on every shot, so I decided to grab a revolver and see how the .357 metal-piercing ammo would perform against the same plate. Even at close range the .357 made only a small dent, and the "metal-piercing" bullet was recovered flattened but intact on the surface of the plate.

That round might work fine on the thin sheet metal of an auto body, but I doubt it could handle anything much thicker. It was probably good ammo back in its day, especially compared to standard RNL police ammo, but today any one of the newer bonded rounds designed for good barrier penetration would probably perform just as well, if not better.

Ten bucks was a great deal, and for that price I'd say just keep the box and a few intact rounds as a background for your revolver pics, then go out and shoot the rest. Testing it against a few different barriers and comparing it to some newer, modern ammo might not generate a lot of useful information, but it sure would be fun!

Thanks DC7,

I have no delusions this is "better" ammo than now. I would rather carry my 158gr. SJHP than this. I just find it really interesting, historically. I am also surprised they could cram a 158gr. bullet into that narrow a cone - must be deep seated with a fast powder, I am guessing.

I wish I had kept the recovered bullet from my informal "test"--I'd like to know if it has some sort of hardened penetrator core, or if it just depended on the pointed jacket for it's "metal-piercing" abilities. I shoot exclusively indoors these days, but if I ever get to an outdoor range again maybe I'll fire off one of the dozen rounds I have left and see what it's made of.

My father bought some years ago at a store called Turnstyle here in Racine, I have a few of the rounds left. I almost bought tsome Super-Vel 110 grn .38 Special yesterday at the show.

I love seeing your photo. Thanks for sharing.

Can you imagine the absolute fit that the anti-s would have if ammunition so labeled was sold today?

I wonder if Barnes solid copper HP's wouldn't fare just as well as this stuff?

Ah yes! The old "shoot right thru an engine block load"!

Well, it was hogwash then, and it's hogwash now, but they would zip right thru automobile glass and car doors pretty good, and that's what they were designed for. I'd imagine they'd give some grades of body armor fits, too.

quote:

The box says 1410 fps and 700fpe (don't know what test barrel),

Based on the age of that ammo, it was probably a 10" unvented test barrel with 8 3/8" of rifling. I doubt it would get anywhere close to 1410 in your beautiful M27, but it would be fun to try.

quote:

Originally posted by stiab:

quote:

The box says 1410 fps and 700fpe (don't know what test barrel),

Based on the age of that ammo, it was probably a 10" unvented test barrel with 8 3/8" of rifling. I doubt it would get anywhere close to 1410 in your beautiful M27, but it would be fun to try.

yeah, that's a good guess - probably an unvented test barrel.

I have a 4" 686 with a .003" b/c gap that shoots like a laser, and I know where there's an abandoned car - maybe I should go check it out!

Since it's actually a full box, I'll probably stash it for "collecting" - to pass on to somebody who really wants it or trade. But I'll look for some more at the show next weekend and then I'll ride back out to the field with the old Honda abandoned in it...

"Old Honda abandoned in it..."

That's no proper test. You need something substantial like a '55 Buick.

Yeah BMC,
And you'd better make damned sure it isn't Broderick Crawford's old 55' Buick also!
Ol' 21-50 by, might just return the fire!