Fellows,I just came into an old M&P 4" (serial# 57xxx). It's rusty and has been carried a lot and shot very little. Mr. Roy Jinks says it was made in 1904.
I'm interested in both mild target factory loads and some sort of 158 gr. SWCHP for a non +p personal defense load.
I have a small supply of 110 gr. STHP non +p to carry in it, if I ever feel the need. But, it just seems right to carry "old school loads" in an old warhorse such as this. Not to mention the assumption that 158's will shoot to point of aim.(?)
So, what shoots well guys?
I'm assuming that this revolver should be called an M&P second model?
Thanks,
dakasat

Welcome to the forum. My thinking is that in .38 standard pressure I would want a heavier bullet ( 148 or 158 gr.) to insure adequate penetration. I'm sure standard pressure FBI loads are available somewhere. I think Buffalo Bore might have a load like that, so check their website. Wadcutters should work decent too. There's no reason not to carry a gun that old as a weapon, but PLEASE make sure it's in good repair. Of special concern to me is the hammer spring. Good luck!

Please be kind to your veteran war horse and feed it gentle lead bullet loads. I'd suggest 148 grain WC or standard velocity 158 grain RN or SWC only.

Keep in mind that the vast majority of .38 Special revolver failures that involved cylinder chamber bulging and forcing cone splitting were in antiquated guns such as yours when used with modern jacketed ammunition.

Thanks Gents for the advice! I figure as old as this Smith is, I'd better do as you guys say and feed it what they did "back then."
I've shot this gun with USA 130 gr. ball and it worked fine. Accuracte too! Sure shoots softer than my 642 Smith with the same load!
I'm assuming Winchester still makes some form of 158 SWC HP in non +p form? I'll be checking on that soon. Any other brands that you've found to your satisfaction? Black Hills?
Once again, thanks for replying!
Be Safe!
dakasat

I just checked, Buffalo Bore has a 158 gr. gas checked Semi-wadcutter hollow cavity and a 150 gr. hard cast wadcutter.

I have the same gun, made in 1915. I shoot 158 grain round nose lead OR 158 grain semi wad cutters (both standard velocity) for practice. I have never used it as a carry weapon, however if I ever do I would not hesitate to load it with 158 grain SWCHP +P ammo. The +P stuff of current manufacture is not that much hotter than the standard velocity to cause a problem with 6 shots.
Remember, the "proof" loads they used to test the guns then were a lot hotter than +P loads of today. However I would use the +P stuff for carry only. The reason I like the 158 grain loads in the earlier Smiths is because that's the load they were designed to shoot and they are usually dead nuts on with that type of ammo. The lighter grain bullets will usually shoot lower than the 158's.

Personally am not a big fan of 148 grain wad cutter. I find that they lead the crap out of the cylinders and forcing cone, and are not any more accurate than the 158 grain loadings. They are also harder to load into the cylinder with a speed loader. The RNL works great in speed loaders! While the RNL is not a great carry load type of bullet, for target work it's great!

You might not want to use those 130gr FMJ rounds in your old beauty of a revolver. Like the others have recommended, try and use rounds that were use when the revolver was new. Remington has a 158gr LRN standard pressure round #R38S5 available and a UMC 158gr LRN round #L38S5 available too. Both are rated at only 755 fps from a 4" barrel and probably won't do any damage to your revolver. Their 158gr LSWC round #R38S6 is probably a good round too since it's also rated at only 755 fps and would probably be a better round for SD in the home because it will make a more damaging hole than the RN rounds. Actually, you really don't have a good choice of SD ammo for that old revolver. Most companies aren't making good .38 Special SD ammo in none +P pressures. I would even be worried about the stuff Buffalo Bore has out since they are very high velocity and might not damage a none +P revolver that's 20 years old but might damage a 100 year old revolver.

Winchester also has a 158gr LSWC and LRN standard pressure rounds available (#X38WCPSV and #X38S1P) which are probably safe for your revolver. Winchester has a 110gr Super-X Silvertip Hollow Point round that's standard pressure. (#X38S9HP) That round is probably the best you will get for SD in a standard pressure round in Factory ammo.

Federal has a 110gr Hydra-Shok round #PD38HS3H that's a standard pressure .38 Special. I'm not sure how well that bullet performs at lower velocities though.

Take good care of that old beauty and have fun shooting it!!

Gents,Thanks again for your advice and comments!
I'm sure glad I found this forum!
I've been shooting for 36 of my 40 years. I enjoy chatting or emailing back and forth with fellows with the same interests very much!
I have a small quantity of the 110 gr. Silvertip non +p. I also have 125 Nyclad in both +p and standard pressure. I carry the Nyclad in my 642 Smith.
I favor Winchester ammo mostly. Kinda like I favor Smith revolvers so I think I'll try the 158 SWC HP Win. stuff first. If I'm understanding, it's best to try to stay with lead rounds in these old Smiths due to the metallurgy and 158's due to the P.O.I.
That's what I've always heard.
Now, what shoots best for you guys in the 158SWC field? Remington? Winchester? Anybody ever try any of the smaller makers stuff that you could recommend?
Also, my revolver was supposedly made in 1904 ( M&P serial# 578XX.)This is according to Mr. Jinks. I'm sure he's right!
Am I correctly terming this a "first change" model? I know it's just a little different than the model that initially came out in 1899.
No, I won't be carrying this old bute very often for self defense. I have several others that I favor. I'm also a Deputy Sheriff and SRT officer and have to qualify with what I carry.
Thanks again for the info GUYS!
Be Safe,
dakasat

Both the Remington and Winchester 158gr LSWC/HP rounds shoot well but the Remington will expand more reliable at the lower velocities because of the difference in their Lead compared to the bullet used in the Winchester round. The Remington rounds are a little smokey though... LOL

I don't know if this will help but my owner's manual for my new M&P 9 has a section where it says not to use +P ammo in any K-frame revolver manufactured before 1958. I'd stick with S&W's recommendation on this one. Why take a chance on ruining a classic like this one?

If you handload, Rainier makes an excellent 148 gr. .357 DIA plated wadcutter. I've handloaded that bullet and my wife's 3" model 60 is loaded with them right now. No leading and as mild as you want it. In my 1 7/8" barrel 360 PD Connie could just manage to see a few of them cruise downrange at the 25 yard range we shoot at.

You might want to try these : http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?s...id=935463&t=11082005 . They are a relatively mild "cowboy" load offered by Black Hills. The lead bullets have a relatively flat point to them, so should do more damage than a RNL lead slug if you had to use it for personal defense.

I wouldn't want to get hit by a .38 period, and your revolver was doubtless a fine weapon in its day, but given the range of far more modern choices, I don't know that I'd pick a weapon made before WW1 as a defensive weapon at all.

If you desire a K frame for personal defense, a far more modern used example can be had for 300 dollars or less. I'd also be worried about a reference to a personal defense weapon as "rusty", as I'd have some concerns about just how rusty and structural integrity, as well as wondering what sort of condition the lockwork/mechanicals are in. I would suggest taking the revolver to a competent gunsmith and having it examined if you haven't already.

Certainly have the innards checked if you remotely plan to rely on it to defend your life.

lol...yea, the 'rusty" thing got ya, did it? Rusty on the inside, really good shape on the inside! I've checked the springs and replaced the hammer spring. I polished the hammer and sideplate a bit too. I'm not planning on asking the Sheriff if I can carry the old rusty girl on duty or nothin'! lol
I'll try the Remington HP's, Thanks for that one!
I'm thinking on actually reloading for the first time! NOT for this old Smith though.
I'll buy a 586 or something. I wanna stay with .38 special.
Thanks again for all the input guys!
I just came off duty about 30 minutes ago. I almost had to shoot a suspicious person with a weapon....he wouldn't put it down...he was confused..!...turned out to be a BB gun! Couldn't sleep....had to type for a while!
You guys have a good Sunday!
dakasat