quote:

Originally posted by Andy Griffith:

quote:

Originally posted by flop-shank:
If you ever order stuff from Midway, they probably stock that load.

But their shipping is now out of sight!

What really annoys me is that they charge shipping on backordered partial shipments. I.e., if you order five items, and two are on backorder, you pay shipping on the first three, then again on the other two, when they come in, or twice again, if they come in one at a time. Only way to avoid it is to wait until all five items arrive before having them ship anything. Other folks (Brownell's, for instance) do not charge shipping on late-shipped partial backorders.

I have been stocking up on this stuff, a couple boxes at a time, from a local seller. Its gone up like everything else in the last two years. Last time a bought a couple boxes it was $17 per 50 round box. But its still a bargin. And the specs are impressive. It shoots fine out of my guns: accurate and clean. I would like to know how that bullet holds up when it hits a soft target at that speed.

Out West

quote:

Originally posted by ArchAngelCD:
Just be aware, Fiocchi and S&B ammo is loaded to European CIP specs and not SAAMI specs which would account for the higher velocities.

For example, SAAMI specs used to be 21,500 for the .38 Special +P, then they were dropped to 20,000 psi and now they are set at 18,500 psi. CIP specs are still at 21,500 psi for the .38 Special +P.

Another example, SAAMI limits for the .357 Magnum were 40,000 psi and are now only 35,000 psi. CIP limits are at 44,000 psi.

(the numbers above are from memory and could be wrong, hopefully I remembered correctly)

Makes sense.

Having owned a Spanish side by side shotgun I can tell you that while CIP handgun ammo specs for some cartridges may be hotter than equivalent SAAMI specs, the reverse is true for shotgun cartridges.

quote:

Originally posted by Erich:
I'm not making this up: Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes à Feu Portatives (Permanent International Commission for the testing of carry-able firearms - the European commercial arms standards body).

Dang, Erich. Sorry I asked. That crap could tie a guy's brain in a knot.

Commission Internationale Permanente
Scary, isn't it??

CIP sounds so much better... LOL

quote:

Originally posted by ArchAngelCD:
Commission Internationale Permanente
Scary, isn't it??

CIP sounds so much better... LOL

George Soros is the chairman.

quote:

Originally posted by Wyatt Earp:

quote:

Originally posted by ArchAngelCD:
Commission Internationale Permanente
Scary, isn't it??

CIP sounds so much better... LOL

George Soros is the chairman.

Please never say that person's name in mixed company! I'm surprised that name made it past the swear filter...

quote:

Originally posted by Erich:
I'm not making this up: Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes à Feu Portatives (Permanent International Commission for the testing of carry-able firearms - the European commercial arms standards body).

Beware the literally translated idiomatic phrase. "Armes à Feu" means "firearms," but when you add "portatives" the meaning becomes "small arms." In English, "small arms" means "anything that's not crew-served" and not "weapons of small physical size."

When it comes to France, you have to remember that you're dealing with a 2,000-year-old nation that has 246 types of cheese.


Okie John

Yeah, carry-able arms is exactly what "small arms" means. The English phrase eluded me when I typed my translation (it's not one I use often), as my brain was stuck in stinky cheese land.

Guys I just ran a 10 round string over the chronograph and can tell you this stuff is NOT hot.

1192 fps, 23fps es

5" S&W 627, chronograph 15ft from gun, 65deg f

The stuff is accurate, penetrated to 18" into the rubber mulch trap, the lead peeled back and the largest dia expansion was .379"

at 19 dollars/50 rounds it's cheap range ammo, but I don't think I'll switch to it for SD or hunting.

468 ft. lbs. not a super hotrod in that caliber, but probably a good round if the bullet is a good performer. I'll stick with Remington. Thanks for the report.

Don't run it through your K frame.

I've done warmer that than from a K-frame with .38 Specials (admittedly, from the Speer #8, but still . . .).

quote:

Originally posted by ArchAngelCD:
Just be aware, Fiocchi and S&B ammo is loaded to European CIP specs and not SAAMI specs which would account for the higher velocities.

For example, SAAMI specs used to be 21,500 for the .38 Special +P, then they were dropped to 20,000 psi and now they are set at 18,500 psi. CIP specs are still at 21,500 psi for the .38 Special +P.

Another example, SAAMI limits for the .357 Magnum were 40,000 psi and are now only 35,000 psi. CIP limits are at 44,000 psi.

(the numbers above are from memory and could be wrong, hopefully I remembered correctly)

Part of the pressure fandango is due to the change from CUP (copper units of pressure) to PSI-even if some unthinking dolts tacked PSI after figures that were CUP. There's an apparently large group of folks who figured that all pressure figures had to be PSI, since they didn't know about any other standard.

Out West "I would like to know how that bullet holds up when it hits a soft target at that speed. "

Here is a comparison of terminal performance shot into rubber mulch. From left to right is Fioccii 148gr sjhp (1192fps), Magtech 158gr sjhp (1240fps), my home brew 164 gr at 1269 fps
This is from a Lymann 358156 that I hollowpointed the bullet 1/8" wide and only 1/8" deep



Penetration into the mulch Fioccii 18", Magtech 19", Home brew 24"

Here is a top view to compare the expansion Clockwise from lower right Fioccii .375", Hornady lswchp @850 no expansion, Magtech .50", Home brew .55"