Today I fired three rounds of the BB Standard Pressure Short Barrel Heavy .38 Special 158gr. very soft lead cast, SWC-HC (20C/20) into a string of five one-gallon water jugs from my 642-1 at a distance of 10'. Why three rounds? I only had fifteen jugs.

I was pretty surprised by the results.

Round #1 exited the rear of the 4th jug at an upward angle and deflected off of 5th jug, denting it. The bullet started to break apart upon impact with the 1st jug. Small fragments were found in all four jugs.

Rounds #2 & 3 penetrated all of the jugs and left perfect wadcutter-like exit holes out of the back of the 5th jug. Apparently none of the bullets expanded. Small fragments were recovered in the jugs, but I failed to note which jugs they were in.

I would love to show you recovered bullets, but unfortunately, all of them continued on to bury themselves in the dirt backstop. Did they expand upon impact with the dirt? We'll never know. It would be impossible to distinguish recovered bullets from the hundreds of lead bullets in the backstop left from previous practice sessions.

This was by no means a scientific test. I started carrying this ammo a couple of weeks ago and finally had the time to test the Buffalo Bore ammo out for myself. I did not use a chrono, nor did I make provisions to recover bullets that penetrated all of the jugs of water. Truth be told, I expected them to possibly shed large fragments (as they did in brassfetcher's test www.brassfetcher.com ) or expand and be recovered in or between the jugs. I was wrong.

I will repeat this test again (with better planning) when I get the chance, but until I can prove that this round will expand reliably out of the 1-7/8" barrel of the 642-1, I'll go back to Speer 135gr GDHP+P's. The Gold Dots I've fired into water and mud have consistently expanded from the little snubbie.

rd

This message has been edited. Last edited by: rdrancher,

Thanks RD!,
I'm sure that the water/gelatin difference is rearing it's ugly head here? I'm glad to hear they got that kind of straight line penetration! With a SWC profile, it'd do a lot of damage along it's way.
Is your concern that of it's over penetration, or failure of expansion?
Thanks Again!

Thank you for this report. It is very interesting to me as I will be picking up my 642-2 this weekend. I plan on carrying the short barrel Gold Dot recipe. I currently use Gold Dots for carry in my 40ve.

quote:

Is your concern that of it's over penetration, or failure of expansion?

Well, more a lack of any discernible expansion than anything, as witnessed by the exit holes.

Here's a photo of all of the fragments recovered from three rounds next to an unfired BB round. The three Gold Dots shown for comparison were recovered from water/mud.


rd

This message has been edited. Last edited by: rdrancher,

I did the same thing with the +P version in water. Mine stopped in the 4th jug, with zero expansion, zero fragmentation. The nose was bent a little on one side, since the round veered downward and skidded to a stop in the bottom of the jug. The lead in the box of that ammo I have is anything but soft. In fact, it seems almost as hard as the lead in some true hardcast bullets I got from Beartooth. I don't think this stuff will expand in gelatin, either.

quote:

The lead in the box of that ammo I have is anything but soft.

I have not seen the +P version, but that's the impression I had from the standard pressure version too. Very hard.

The quote from the BB site is, "Item 20C utilizes the same 158gr. very soft lead cast, SWC-HC gas checked bullet, we load in our +P 38 SPL ammo."

quote:

I don't think this stuff will expand in gelatin, either.

Since the lead used is the same for both bullets, and Brassfetcher's test bullets did not expand, I doubt it too.

rd

I'm not convinced that "shrapnel" coming off the bullet is a bad thing. If the pieces continue to penetrate, I think that would be OK.

As to not expanding, well, at least you still have a big semi wadcutter if it doesn't expand.

This is what I have in my gun right now. My bullets are dead soft.

Though the huge, square bottomed hollowpoint looks impressive, I can't help but think that the opening should be conical...

quote:

My bullets are dead soft.

So I have to wonder. Did Buffalo Bore change the hardness of their bullets at some point in time?

Inquiring minds want to know.

rd

Mine are brand new. Just got them a couple of weeks ago. I ordered them from Midway, and had to wait a while for them to come in, so these I have are fresh off the line.

quote:

square bottomed hollowpoint

Mine are round at the bottom, yours are square?

Mine were purchased off of the shelf at Cabela's before Christmas, so who knows how old they are.

rd

Well, now I'll have to go look at mine and see what the bottom of the cavity looks like. Can't remember. I do know that they are hard SOBs.

Flat bottoms, straight sides.

Flat bottoms.

OK, that makes more sense. Mine look the same as your's.

But you did say that your's felt soft. Mine sure don't. Maybe that's the difference.

I'm going to go back out behind the barn today and set up a bit differently. I'll see if I can capture a few slugs.

rd

Let's try this again.

I used hard white plastic containers for this observation as opposed to soft clear milk jugs. Only three of the containers used this time were of the same size. All of the containers pierced by the four bullets were split from the entry/exit holes to the bottom and only used one time. Speer GDHP's were placed in the photo for comparison.



Round #1 - My bad - I forgot that the first container was a shade taller than the rest. Bullet traveled through 12" of water and was captured at the back of the arresting box. A micro-fragment was found in the first container.

Round #2 - Recovered at the back wall of the second container at 20". No fragments were found.

Round #3 - Recovered between the second and third containers at 22". No fragments were found. Deformation was caused by contact with the wood at the bottom of the containers and the corner of the third container.

Round #4 - Recovered on the surface of the dirt backstop after traveling through 22" of water and the cardboard flap of the arresting box. No fragments were found.



So why the difference between today's and yesterday's results. Hard plastic vs. soft? Did the soft plastic clog the hollow cavity and turn it into a flat-nose? I have no idea. But I am more confident in the load.

rd

That looks pretty good! And penetration does not seem to be a problem!