There is a discussion in the semi auto forum where a member wants to use .45 Super in his Sig 220. I have never heard of this cartridge, and thought they meant +P. I did a search of the ammo forum, but did not get much info. Is it a size in between a 45 Colt and 45ACP? I can't find it on the ammo sites.

The .45 Super was developed by Dean Grenell upwards of 30 years ago. He took .45 Win Mag cases and trimmed them down to .898" which is the max case length for the .45 ACP. The magnum case is stronger with thicker case walls in the web area. As I recall, he used a Thompson Center Contender singleshot chambered for the .45 ACP during the development stage. Grenell then worked with a Texas pistolsmith named Ace Hindmann who modified a M1911 pistol for the .45 Super.

There was a New York state ammo company named Triton that began producing factory loaded .45 Super ammo using cases made by Starline with the Triton headstamp. But some kind of legal hassle between Ace Hindmann and Triton ended the production of .45 Super ammo. Later on Trition went out of business.

Since the .45 ACP and the .45 Super share external dimensions, the Super will chamber in any .45 ACP handgun. Just imagine what a full power Super round would do to something like a Hi-Point. Supposedly a full sized strong pistol like the HK USP45 will digest .45 Super with no modifications. I've also read that the Glock 21 will do this as well with nothing but a stronger weight recoil spring.

I have a Sig P220 and there is no way that I would knowingly shoot Super rounds in my pistol regardless of of what weight recoil spring was installed. Sig's are strong pistols, but the 220 alloy frame just isn't up to the task IMHO.

As to the pressure level of factory .45 Super ammo, well it depends on the load level. Triton offered full power and reduced power loads. The reduced power loads were in the +P+ category. Full power loads exceeded that by a substansial amount.

FWIW, I took a small number of .45 Win Mag cases and trimmed them down to .45 ACP length. I used loading data from one of Grenell's books and shot these loads in my S&W M625-2 five inch. Recoil was about the same as shooting factory loaded .41 Magnum in my M57 four inch. Case extraction was somewhat sticky with all six rounds using a full moon clip. I decided to quit while I was ahead and no damage was done to the 625-2.

To sum things up, don't shoot Super rounds in any pistol that hasn't been built or modified for that round.


Roadster

Thank you, that answers it completely.

I read on a forum/thread .45 Super was approx. 27,000 pSI

for the O.P. .45 ACP = 21,000 psi
and the .45 ACP +P 23,000 psi

Randall

Here are links to more info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Super

http://www.acecustom45s.com/45super.htm

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=416011

http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?t=8...=652***670***9014***

You might want to look at this article, which is the last of a series about .45 Super.

http://www.realguns.com/archives/022.htm

It's a pretty thorough article, and his contention is that outfitting a steel 5" 1911 with a heavy (~30 lb) recoil spring, a titanium firing pin, and maybe an extra power magazine spring is all you need to do to get a gun to safely shoot .45 Super. But, read it yourself and draw your own conclusions.

I had a Springfield V-16 longslide that was made specifically for the .45 Super. You converted from .45ACP by using a stiffer recoil spring. You need less spring weight for this gun than for a several ounce lighter full size 1911, but not much. The only thing the ports on the V-16 did was to keep muzzle flip under control. I think a lot of the talk about a custom gun being needed for this caliber is noise designed to increase gunsmith business.

BTW, the SIG 220 is out according to the article - folded steel slide construction.

Buck

I remember seeing a number of articles on this round in Gun World magazine. I believe that Springfield Armory made some long-slide 1911s in this round.

Interesting thread. An old law school classmate of mine was a personal friend of Ace Hindmann, whom I believe is now deceased. My friend was at the 1995 SHOT Show, manning Hindmann's .45 Super conversion booth. I've shot .45 Super ammo in a 5" 1911 that had the following modifications (best I can recall; it's been a few years): 20-22 lb. recoil spring, heavy mainspring (likely 25lb., at least 24lb.), extra-power magazine springs, and flat-bottom firing pin stop. Yep, that was it. Lots of folks do not realize the highly important function of the mainspring in slowing slide unlocking, and try to do with the recoil spring that which should be done with the mainspring, hence, we see such things as 30lb. recoil springs. We've all had a tendency to get lazy with 1911 mainsprings, using lighter ones to do a poor man's trigger job. You can get by with that at standard pressures. One has to know a bit more about how to fit sears and hammer hooks to get a good trigger with a heavy mainspring. The flat bottom firing pin stop makes the whole thing easier, and allows lighter spring weights.

While it is a hot round, it pales in comparison to the .460 Rowland. I would not shoot a lot of it in a Sig P220, but with a heavier mainspring, mag springs and recoil spring, I'd not be a bit afraid of it in limited quantities. But then, I've seen first hand just how much it takes to break a Sig P220, and it's WAY beyond .45 Super specs.

How about shooting .45 Super out of a P220 Stainless?

quote:

Originally posted by eddieb:
How about shooting .45 Super out of a P220 Stainless?

With the same caveats (heavier recoil spring, mag springs, and maybe mainspring) I would shoot it without worries, but probably not lots of it.

Yeah, it is an interesting thread,

Most I've gotten out of the thread is the
nteraction of the Slide with the recoil _as
well_ as the main spring.

I like the DOuble Tap .45 ACP 200 gr. and
230 gr. offereings with Gold DOts right now.

Randall

I like this round. Anyone ever shoot it out a Ruger Blackhawk with 45 ACP cylinder?