TALK YOUR FRIEND OUT OF IT!! To use such a gun for self defense is, as has already been implied, STUPID. The 351PD has no benefits over other, better self-defense guns. Yes, John Hinkley almost killed Ronald Reagan with a .22 LR richochet from an RG revolver, but that was just "bad luck", and RR was able to walk into the hospital ER. The tiny bullets are lethal, but as mentioned before, they lack "stopping power", that quality that we try to bottle up into our cartridges, and imbue our bullets with.

Do your friend a favor, and steer them to a "real" self-defense gun.

I GET A KICK OUT OF 22MAG.NOT GOOD,no one stop stop etc.Also how many write & blow it off..BUT...their next statement is,"MY BUG IS A NAA 22!Or I carry my NAA 22 when I go to the store...it's so light you don't feel it! Guys..38,45,357cal.I don't care take your pick! ONE STOP SHOT..."GIVE ME A BREAK"YOU ARE GOING TO SHOOT THE BG...ONE TIME...STOP SHOOTING LOOK TO SEE IF HE FALLS DOWN...I HOPE NOT...ME I'M GOING TO SHOOT UNTIL HE STOPS MOVING!If I have a 351PD with CT GRIPS & seven shots...I am going to put most if not ALL in his head! Think that will stop him!! This reminds me of my 45 is better than your 9 or 40! Steve C.bet you could put 7 in the BG HEAD ALSO!!If you have a 351PD GET THE CT GRIPS & "PRACTICE,PRACTICE PRACTICE"YOU should do fine!!
JIM

The 9 vs 40 vs 45 arguement is nothing like comparing any of them to a .22 mag. And I don't care how good a person thinks they are, repeatedly hitting a moving/dodging head in a fluid, fast moving self-defense situation is living a dream. And they might just die trying to live that dream!

I wouldn't really want a .22mag for defense.
I suppose it's better than a rock, but I
would prefer something that makes a bit bigger
hole.
And like one mentioned, the .22mag in most
small pistols are LOUD!!!!. The sound may be
more effective than the actual shot in some
cases.. :/
I agree that you can easily kill someone with
a .22, but I'm not sure I would want to bet my
life on it.
.22's act really funny when they hit body
material. It's quite possible to shoot someone
in the head, and have the slug glance off the
skull. It has happened. I'm not just making it
up..
Also, .22's often like to dart about the body
kind of like the JFK "magic bullet".
This can be deadly to some, but not to others.
Then you have the small dinky entry hole, which
may or may not bleed heavily. Once the bullet
passed the skin, the skin will return to much
of it's original shape, and often partially
close up the wound, and reduce bleeding.
I can easily see cases where you might shoot
some hopped up meth head with a .22, and have
them start laughing at you unless it was a head
shot. No joke..
But even a larger cal is no sure thing.
I personally know a guy who was shot 7 times
with a .357 mag and lived to talk about it.
Yep, he was in the hospital a long time, and
was a real mess, but he eventually got out, and
was living fairly normally last time I saw him.
I know a guy who shot himself in the arm with
his own .38, and he drove himself to the
hospital to get it looked at. Was no big deal to
him.. :/
But saying that, I still prefer something a
bit heavier than a .22mag for defense.
I'm a big hole man myself. .45 will get-r-done
Vern.. And the big hole will gush blood like a
fountain. So if the shot damage doesn't do them
in, they will bleed to death fairly quick.
I recently bought a pistol to use for defense
out in the woods. Mostly animals, but a two
legged animal could come along too..
Of the model I bought, I had the choice of the
9mm, or the .40 S&W.
I took the .40.. Why? the flat shape of the .40
bullet. Not only is the .40 bigger, but that
broad flat nose will punch a big round hole
that will gush blood like a fountain.
The 9mm is not a total slouch, but it's pointy
nose of the bullet does not punch a hole like
the .40 will. The skin will be more likely to
close up around the wound a bit better.
With the blunt .40, it's going to be hard to
close up that gaping wad cutterish hole.
Anyway, anything is better than nothing, but
if I'm going to go out and spend $$$ for defense, it ain't going to be a .22 mag..
I don't want to have to pop every round I have
to try to get results. Not to mention having to
rely on head shots.. :/
I could pop a BG with the .40 one time, and I
bet they hang it up. In the head? What a mess
the .40 would make.. And I won't need to
lather and reapply..
Myself, I think a .380 is the smallest pistol
I would consider for defense, and even it is a
bit wimpy. Give me a .45 if I have my choice.
MK

Guys,I agree about larger cal...BUT...I do not discount a 22 either.Awhile back I was with a SF Sgt(also a LEO)that worked Drug Stings & his weapon was a 22.He introduced me to a Israeli Paratrooper(in Miami on vac.)who I asked about 22's..He said we love them...just repaired one for a guy before I left! So...THEY are carried in harms way.My carry is a PSP or a S&W 65-3 & at times a 22.I feel ok.Also know others (NOT newbies)that carry a 22.
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by kukri4302:
Guys,I agree about larger cal...BUT...I do not discount a 22 either.Awhile back I was with a SF Sgt(also a LEO)that worked Drug Stings & his weapon was a 22.He introduced me to a Israeli Paratrooper(in Miami on vac.)who I asked about 22's..He said we love them...just repaired one for a guy before I left! So...THEY are carried in harms way.My carry is a PSP or a S&W 65-3 & at times a 22.I feel ok.Also know others (NOT newbies)that carry a 22.
Jim

Spec Ops types use suppressed .22s to eliminate guard dogs and occaisionally for assassinations, particularly the Israelis. I'm not aware of any LE agency that would issue a .22 pistol for general duty use, or even approve one for primary carry. Some departments even specify that back up guns have to be at least a .380. If the officer in question works undercover, then he probably had to select a weapon that didn't seem to be connected to LE and that was very low profile. That's a specialized use, the same as killing guard animals or putting two rounds into the back of someone's neck at a cafe.

Regarding 22mag for self defence.I was at a creamatorium & asked about 22mag results.Imbalmer said...NASTY ROUND...had a body in here killed by a 22mag...his insides were all tore up from bullet recoch.all around.
He just shook his head & repeated NASTY!!I carry my 351PD frequently.
Jim

Not to discount what you were told, but ive embalmed over 20,000 bodies and ive seen the opposite results very little tisse destruction overall,smaller calibers do better with head shots, because alot of times they will zing around in the skull without exiting and really tear up brain tissue, but I wouldnt depend on being able to shoot someone in the head on a regular basis in a gun fight. Id only use a 22 if there was nothing else available. Nobody wants to get shot, not even with a 22, I see it mostly as a deterent than a reliable stopper.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mule88,

Personally, I do not use anything less than a 380 for defense work. In my book, the 380 is really the minimum I am willing to risk my life on. Others may want to carry 22s, 25, or 32s, but I'll stick with the 380 (as a secondary gun). My main gun is a 357 Mag.

When I need a smaller gun, then a 380 like the LCP or a good old J-frame in 38 Special will be in my pocket. If someone is willing to bet their life on a .22 NAA mini-revolver, then it is their life to bet. Just don't complain if the house (criminal) wins.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: animalmother,

It's your life. Use what you want. But you will NEVER convince me to use a 22 as a defense weapon unless it is the ONLY weapon available. I've lung/heart shot possums and racoons at the ranch with a 22 mag rifle, and it's taken them some time to die. In a gunfight? Not me, buddy. For me, it's 38 Special or better to start!

A little off subject but, I am curious about the power factor of the 22 magnum. I have been curious ever since a couple of guys told me that they Deer hunt with a 22 mag bolt action. At least one claims to have taken down 2 deer under 100 yards.

A lot of game departments cull deer close to town with .22 magnums - but they generally only take head shots and can pass on anything thats not a perfect setup. I think they're popular with poachers, too.

quote:

Originally posted by flop-shank:
Not if they're boobing, weaving and shooting.

Oh...you mean these were well endowed women assailants?

I carry an NAA with me everywhere- like a pocketknife. I am no "Mr. Tactical," just a humble plowboy. Is a .22 Mag as good as anything bigger? That answer would have to be "no." However, to most people, the little NAA, 317 or 351PD S&W or small rimfire derringer are the lightest and smallest revolvers or non-self loading pistols that can be carried.

I consider a small .22/.22WMR part of my daily outfit, similar to putting on my underwear in the morning. I've gotten to the point I feel naked without it.

There are many reasons to keep/carry something in a "less than tactical" caliber- all of which of the following can be valid:

• Recoil sensitive shooter
• Build of body
• Manner of dress
• Evaluation of surroundings and potential threats/areas
• Familiarity of user to particular firearm
• Comfort or easy of carry

I'm not advocating a .22 rimfire as a perfect defensive round, and the fact is that there are many that are better.

However, ever since the first model S&W tip-ups were made during the Civil War, in a round that was the ballistic equivalent to a .22 Short- they have been in use as a deterrent. Deterrent is the the key word.

I do own a 317 and a NAA .22WMR and others...
and have carried them many times as a "primary."
I have pulled the NAA one time on a druggie with a knife wanting some cash. He didn't want to get shot, and so ran off. (My thought never was if it would stop him- my thought was if I had no choice but to neutralize him for fear of my safety, was my lawyer's number in my cell phone?) Easy on me guys...as I say- I'm a plowboy, and don't get out much.

Where's lawyer "J. Noble Daggett" when you need him? Guess I'd just have to call Cajun if I couldn't get my home lawyer.

Oh, btw...I didn't say that I didn't carry something else...cause I carry the little "mousegun" in addition to the J-frame. They're affordable, and wouldn't mind it being being held...unlike my J-frames.

quote:

ive embalmed over 20,000 bodies

You must be an associate of deadmeat2..

quote:

Originally posted by casingpoint:

quote:

ive embalmed over 20,000 bodies

You must be an associate of deadmeat2..

Two a day for thirty years would get you there.