I took delivery of a CZ 75B standard "Blued(actually Black)" in 9MM this friday. I went to the range, saturday, & 100 rds of WW 115 gr. FMJ, 50 rds of CCI Blazer/brass case 115 gr. FMJ, and 10 rds of CCI/Speer 124 gr. Gold DOt JHPs, later I'm happy as a clam No FTF/FTEs

Don't yah just hate it when a new gun is dead nuts reliable, handles well and accurate?

ANyway on the way home I stopped at a sporting goods store and got a cheap box of PMC 115 gr. FMJ as well as a spendy Winchester Supreme 147 gr. SXT JHPs - I looked up the product code on the 'net and seems they're loaded to 990 FPS

Are these the "FBI" load?

I also got two 20 rd boxes of Hornady .45 ACP +P 200 gr. XTP JHPs - net article said
they chrono'd at 1,055 FPS out of a 5" Bbl 1911 Woo Hoo imho better bullet than the CorBon conventional JHPs.

I've got 500 of the Hornady XTP JHPs bullets and new Starline ACP and AUto RIm brass so if I like the ammo, i'll get it loaded to maybe a bit less than +P.

Mr. J,
I know nothing of 9MM, but I have seen that load referred to from time to time by others here, as the (rimless) FBI load? In that diameter, with that weight and velocity I can't imagine a better description actually? I know there are folks that hate 'em and folks that love 'em. No one seems to not, have a strong opinion about them one way or the other?

The current 9mm load issued by the FBI is the Gold Dot 147 grain, loaded to about 985 fps.

9mm Gold Dot

Huh, I just got the CZ 75B in 9MM x 19 for a range gun for cheaper ammo, so I'm trying out various bullet weights and brands for breaking it in, and my experience with 9MM. Didn't know the 'FBI' load was such a Black & White matter of taste/opinion. I did find an online source for 9x19 147 gr. Hornady XTP JHP @ 1,090
FPS at less than half the cost of the SXT I got saturday and it seems perhaps some firing into some of the ol'wet newspaper or something might be called for & that .45 ACP Hornady XTP 200 gr. should also be tried

Winchester won the FBI contract with their Ranger Bonded duty ammo.

In addition to the FBI, the contract affects many agencies both inside and outside the Department of Justice, including the Drug Enforcement Administration, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and U.S. Marshal Service.

Hotpig,
Have any of the folks at the pointy end expressed an opinion on the selection of the load? Since I have ZERO experience with the 9, my default setting always steers me towards heavy. I know I've read in the past (and some of it referred to 147's WAY in the past!) about a pox being brought down on anyones house, using it? Never understood why, unless it just flat would NOT run in the guns of the time?
Take me to school, H/P....

FWIW, I' m sure most of you already know this, but the origin of the 147 gr 9mm dates back to the Vietnam war time frame. It was developed as a subsonic "dog load", to use in the suppressed S & W 39 to take out enemy guard dogs silently.

DP

quote:

Winchester won the FBI contract with their Ranger Bonded duty ammo.

I've heard this, but if so, none of that ammo has made it out to the field, at least in my part of the woods. Its still Golden Sabres in .45 ACP, Gold Dots in .40 and 9mm, and the same old 190 grain Federal JHPs in 10mm. For a few years we got Ranger SXTs in .45 ACP for practice ammo, but we're back to Winchester ball in that caliber now.

People are funny. I remember when both the issue 9mm and the issue .38 Special loads were 147 grain Hydra-Shoks. The loads were essentially identical - if anything, the 9mms were a little hotter on paper. But the guys who carried Model 13s would cast a critical eye at those nines and pat their Magnums fondly. I think there is something about those elegant .38 Special rounds when compared to those stubby little 9mms. Didn't matter that what came out of the muzzle and did the heavy lifting was the same bullet at the same speed.

I also think its funny that a 158 grain .357 diameter lead hollowpoint at 900 fps is a death ray, while a 147 grain .355 diameter jacketed hollowpoint at 980 fps is some kind of powder puff load.

A friend of mine killed a guy with a single round of 9mm 147 HS through a windshield into the upper lip and straight back to the brain stem. He swears by it. The 9mm 147 meets the needs of the FBI for a deep penetrating round. Its not for everybody, but if I carried a 9mm I wouldn't have any problem with this load.

I'll stick with Ranger 127 +P+, for some reason my 9mm's don't care for the 147.

Yeah Broker,
I was aware (at the time) of that loading, though I had no personal experience with it. It was explained to me as something chugging along in the very low 700's for sub-sonic suppressed applications. The newest version doing 200 to 300 FPS better, would seem at least to be on paper worth a look? Thanks for that info 220! Is the major difference what bullet they selected, 'cause the performance parameters sure seem similar? Thanks for the help on this load. I really have zero experience with them.

quote:

Is the major difference what bullet they selected, 'cause the performance parameters sure seem similar?

The Bureau tests ammo all the time. If more than one round meets the criteria (penetration to 12" in the various test media, expansion, and accuracy) then whoever offers the best price gets the nod. It used to be the Hydra-Shok, now its the Gold Dot, and it may be the Ranger in the near future. One isn't necessarily better than the other - it comes down to best price among the acceptable candidates.

Usually, though, "FBI load" refers to the .38 Special +P lead hollowpoint. Its also been called the "Chicago load" and the "St Louis load".

FBI Awards Second Ammunition Contract to Winchester

As always!
Have a question, just ask!
I thank all the gentlemen.....
(BTW, I still like heavy bullets. Shh, don't tell anyone!)