I have a MOdel 640 .357 Magnum 2 and 1/8th inch barrel and use Speer Gold Dot 135 grain Copper Jacketed hollow point rounds 38 Special +P.They were designed for NYPD to be used in Snub Nosed Revolvers and do not lose velocity in comparision to the same round being fired in a 4 inch barrel 38 Special.The reports from testing and Officer involved shootings were quite good so I figure if it is good enough for NYPD it is good enough for me....God Bless....Mike

Hi, Wayne. Let me be clear up front: I know almost nothing about ammunition. However, I've owned three handguns (including a recently purchased Model 36), and have fired those and a few more over the years. When all is said and done, I'm in the camp of those who say that it's better to fire a smaller load and hit some thing (or someone in self defense), than to fire a larger load and miss.

I'm inclined to go with "Double-O-Dave" and the advice given by the FBI agent: The best ammunition is the ammunition that you can fire accurately, with controllable recoil. To that I'd add two more factors: consistency and reliability.

I've fired about a couple of hundred rounds so far in my Model 36. I tried different brands (Magtech, Cor-Bon, Winchester, Federal, and Remington), different grains (110, 130, 155), different bullets (full metal jacket, jacketed hollow point, wadcutters, flat tip), and different loads (standard and +P). First thing I ruled out was the +P. In fact, I donated half of a box of the twenty Cor-Bon +P cartridges to a person behind the cash register at the range. Next thing I ruled out was anything over about 130 grains. Sure, the Model 36 could handle it. But I couldn't! Even with the lighter loads, the Model 36 was still a handful for me. Putting on a set of Pachmayr grips helped quite a bit (but you may sacrifice concealability).

Between Federal (American Eagle), Winchester (Target/Range), Magtech, Cor-Bon (Self-Defense) and Remington (UMC), Federal was the winner. Even at the lighter grains, the muzzle flash and recoil from the Remington was astonishing. The fired Magtech cases didn't always eject. The Winchester rounds weren't as "clean" firing as I thought they would be. And, well, the Cor-Bon was just too much for me to handle.

Overall, I found that 110 grain wadcutters were easiest to handle and the most accurate. But in a handgun with a 1 7/8" barrel, some folks might think that that is on the low end of adequate for a self-defense round. So for now, my ammo of choice in the Model 36 is Federal's American Eagle 130 grain full metal jacket. Consistent, reliable, reasonably accurate, and reasonably controllable recoil (with Pachmayr grips). The fired cases ejected fairly smoothly, and the powder was clean burning.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MX-5,

I carry Remington 158gr LSWC/HP .38 Special +Pounds (Part #R38S12) in my Airweight. They will be safe in your all Carbon Steel M36 too.

MX-5, IMO you will be better served by those wadcutters. I highly doubt a 110 gr. wadcutter will have trouble penetrating VERY deeply.

Hi, flop-shank. Thanks. Unfortunately, the only 110 grain wadcutters that I've been able to find in my area (Northern Virginia) are reloads. For personal protection, I don't favor using ammo reloaded by someone I don't know. Anyway, I just did a search on-line, and found that Midway sells about twenty different types of .38 Special wadcutters. Unfortunately, they all are 148 grains or higher. So by necessity, I have to shoot the ammo that I can find. That's another reason why I went with the 130 grain fmj. Just about every store, including the NRA range, stocks them. I'll keep a look-out though, as my shooting was most accurate and most enjoyable with the 110 grain wadcutters.

My wife uses light .148 gr. wadcutter handloads. Her "mouse fart" defensive ammo penetrates 16 1/2" of Perma-gel IIRC. Try target type 148s and see if you like them. They shove, whereas lighter weight mild loads seemed snappier to her. If for some reason you can't/won't order them from Midway, you might want to ask a local gunshop if they can order some. Round nosed bullets tend to create tiny puncture wounds. Wadcutters are known for leaving caliber sized holes.

Hi, again, flop-shank. Thanks. I don't have anything against Midway; the reason that I didn't order from them was because I must have misinterpreted your earlier message; I thought you had suggested the 110 grain wadcutters and I didn't see any on Midways web site. I found another store in my area that sells ammo and hope to visit this weekend. I'll pick up some wadcutters if they have; if not, I may get some from Midway unless I wait till the next gun show.

It sounds like you're on the right track. I've never shot a 110 gr. wadcutter in my life, but when I shot Corbon's 110 gr. JHP into Perma-Gel it penetrated very deep, and it expanded quite well. 148 wadcutters are machinegun-like if you're practiced. They make a nice hole, recoil lightly, are accurate and penetrate very deeply.

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148 wadcutters...make a nice hole, recoil lightly, are accurate and penetrate very deeply.

You think they do any better than 125 grain .38 Special Golden Sabers from a two inch barrel?

It depends on weather the GS expands or not. If I were confident that the GS would expand, it would be my choice, provided it were accurate in the gun. Also realize that, in my experience with P-G, many hollowpoints that fail to expand tumble and wind up traveling backwards. Once the bullet is going backwards it should be acting pretty wadcutter-like. I'm sure +P GSs have a more unpleasant recoil than target wadcutters.

The standard pressure 150 grain Buffalo Bore wadcutter (868 fps/251 me) looks like somebody's huckleberry.

Hi, again. I hope that I'm not making too many comments on this thread, considering that I'm not much of an authority on the subject. But anyway, I went to a neighborhood sporting goods store (Dicks) and as luck would have it, they had a sale of 130 grain Remington UMC full metal jacket and 110 grain "low recoil" Federal Premium Hyrda Shock jacketed hollow points. I picked up a box of each.

I was out of Magtechs (which I don't prefer anyway), so I went to the range with the following four, all in .38 Special: 130 grain Federal American Eagle full metal jacket; 130 grain Winchester target/range full metal jacket (flat tip); 130 grain Remington UMC full metal jacket; and 110 grain Federal Premium Hydra Shok "low recoil" jacketed hollow points. I didn't fire an equal number of rounds of each, but I did try some of each at distances of 7' and 14' (which is far enough for me and my 1 7/8" Model 36). My observations confirmed much of what I earlier reported, but there were some new observations. I'm sure others may disagree. In no particular order:

(1) Winchester. They were the most accurate, but also were the most inconsistent and the most dirty. The recoil and flash varied from cartridge to cartridge, and the gun quickly became covered in black. Inspection of the cartridges still in the box revealed nicks on some cases and on primer exteriors. Some cartridges looked like reloads rather than new.

(2) Federal Hydra Shok. Low recoil? Could have fooled me. I found myself looking at the package every couple of shots to see if there was a "+P" designation on the box. There wasn't. And the accuracy was middling. The cost was pretty steep (though some might ask "How much is your life worth"?). In the absence of wadcutters or similar, probably OK for those who don't favor full metal jackets for personal defense. Cartridges all appeared to be first rate.

(3) Remington UMC: Not as inconsistent as the Winchesters, but more inconsistent than Federal's American Eagle. Ditto for accuracy. Fairly clean firing. But the recoil and muzzle flash were something to behold. Some stray nicks on cases and on primers, but generally first rate appearance.

(4) Federal American Eagle. This ammo didn't do anything exceptionally well, but did everything reasonably well. Clean firing, consistent response from cartridge to cartridge, controllable recoil, and no surprises. Cartridge cases had uniform machine marks, but cases and primers otherwise were nick free and looked first rate.

In summary: Full metal jackets may not be the ideal self defence cartridge, but until I can get my hands on some low recoil wadcutters, Federal's American Eagle full metal jackets may be my ammo of choice, with Remington not far behind.

MX-5 wrote

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until I can get my hands on some low recoil wadcutters,

Check www.mastercast.net. I have fired more than 5,000 of their reloads (yes, reloads -- so if you don't really want to save money, read no farther), and have found them to be reliable and inexpensive, with prompt delivery. They are particularly inexpensive if you send them an equal amount of spent brass in exchange. Do so by USPS Priority Mail. I send a thousand cases that way for nine bucks and change (even with the recent price rise).

Cordially, Jack

As much as FMJ gives me the creeps, I think your reasoning is sound, MX-5.

I also like the standard pressure Buffalo Bore 158gr SWC hp's in my model 36 (from the '60's). The recoil is controllable, and for me, they shoot right to point of aim the same as plain, cheap, bulk 158gr swc "practice ammo"...which I don't think would be all that horrible for defense either, for that matter...

I keep the +P Remingtons in all my model 10's and 15.