I have recently acquired a pair of Winchester lever action rifles, an 1873 and an 1892. Not being a Winchester guy, I'm in need of an expert's opinion on them, which I know has to be done hands on, not just from photos. Does anyone have a suggestion of someone in the Fredericksburg, VA area?

TIA

RWJ

You'd be surprised what can be done with photos here. Especially from guys like S&WChad and many others. Try it.

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There are some very knowledgeable Winchester collectors on this site. I’ve played with them for a while too. I’d love to see some photos and I’m sure we can get you close. Measure the barrel lengths from the bolt face (rear edge of the front bridge). The better the photos, the better the estimate.

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If you go here these people know Winchesters. There is a fellow named BertH who is good and another person is from the Cody museum who posts there. They should give you good advice.

WinchesterCollector.org :: View Forum - Winchester Rifles

Love to see the pics,too...

The 1892's are my favorite model. But those 1873's are just plain beautiful. I'm no expert, but it hasn't stopped me from building a small collection of these guns.

giz

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Do either of them have the big John Wayne lever? I just picked up a 94AE Centennial model with the big loop.




I love it! I've been searching for one for about 30 years. The only ones I ever found were the JW Commemoratives for like $3000!

I picked this one up for much less!

I will have to dig out my camera and sign up to a photo site for pics, but from going to a Win. collectors' site, the 1873 is 1888-89, with 24" oct. bbl and dust cover present, and the 1892 is 1928-29, and 20" round bbl. They are both in 44 WCF (44-40). I'll try to get some photos up tonight.

Well, the caliber certainly makes the guns interesting. Folks tend to pay a premium for the 44-40's. Here in Maine they are not as common as the 32-20, 38-40's that folks hunted deer with. Finding 25-20's seems to be pretty hard in my area...

Will be interesting to see the pics.

giz

p.s. Whatever you do, don't fire the 1873... Surest way to financial bankruptcy you'll find...

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You definitely have both of them in a good caliber, as giz said, the .44-40 is the most desirable caliber in both the '92 and '73. Also, sounds like the '92 is a SRC wihch is generally more desirable than the rifle.

Sorry for the poor photos; a photographer, I am not. Ser# on the 1873 = 3395xxB; on the 1892, = 9898xx

Your 1873 is a Third Model Rifle with an octagon barrel. It should date close to 1890. Everything else appears standard (standard length barrel, standard length magazine tube, plain trigger, rifle butt) and I’d describe it as an solid unmolested brown gun. Your rear sight elevator is missing but that’s an easy part to replace. I think it’s worth over $1500 at auction, especially if it has a good bore.

The 92 carbine warrants better photos. I would expect a 44A carbine rear sight (ladder) in 1927 and it may have been replaced. It’s either a screamer of a SRC or a refinished gun (possibly a factory refinish, which could explain the sight). The wood looks great, much nicer than usual. Photos of the tang markings and proof marks (on the barrel and front bridge) might help pin it down. If it’s original, it’s worth a good amount (over 4K). A factory refinish (possibly marked under the stock on the tang) would bring considerably less. Get good photos in daylight.

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Here's a second try. I will be out of town for a couple of days, and won't have a chance for daylight photos. How does one take off the stock to check for a factory re-blue without causing damage or marring screws? The rear sight is a Marbles.

I agree with Chad, that is either one helluva nice 1892 or it has been refinished. Realistically, it has probably been refinished as you generally don't see them in that condition.

That's a great looking SRC; can't wait to see what you find out regarding condition... Congratulations on a couple of nice ones!

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The condition of the bore on that 1873 is going to have alot to do with it's price. Any combination of erosion and pitting won't help. However if the bore is just frosted and still has strong well defined edges on the rifling...it will probably still be an accurate gun.

The SRC looks almost to good from the photo's. If it isn't refininished it definitely is a high condition gun ~ in a most desirable caliber. It will bring a high premium, if that's the case. Daytime photo's will help.

giz

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The '73 could be the twin brother to mine as far as condition goes but mine was a rebore from 38 to 44.
Nice shooting rifles.

The '92 looks refinished to me,,especially the barrel from the looks of the barrel address markings. They're blurred from polishing.
The receiver looks good except the proof marks look weak and the polishing of the recvr around that area especially.

When done, the proofs were punched after the blueing was done,,the gun was completely finished. Should be sharp and punched thru the blued finish,,but the pics are a little blurred so perhaps the recv'r proof is OK.

Are both proofs the 'W/P' in an oval?
The barrel proof looks a little smaller,,possibly a 'P' in a circle? indicating a barrel sent out to a customer for outside the factory installation.

Yea, the proof stamping caught my attention too, concerning a possible re-blue (but a good one); the rest of the gun looked pretty good to me, but it's in an area where I have no background. Hence, my quest for a Winchester pro in my area. I will probably use them for trade fodder for Smiths in the future. Any idea what a reblued '92 would be worth?

Thanks for the input, guys. If anyone knows an expert contact near Fredericksburg, I'd be interested.

Randy

I'm not an expert, far from it, but I love Winchester lever actions, and that '73 has me drooling!

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Misty

It appears that your 92 SRC has been refinished. I’m basing my opinion primarily on the photo showing the proof marks and receiver top. The proofs appear washed out and evenly blued and the edges of the breech bolt and extractor aren’t crisp like they should be. When you return, try to take some better photos and I hope I‘m wrong. The factory sometimes stamped “REF” or added assembly numbers to the lower tang when they refinished a gun. Your wood is so nice, I wouldn’t recommend removing the stock to look, unless you REALLY know what you’re doing. The absence of the markings doesn‘t mean anything and you‘re risking damaging the stock (which is worth quit a bit by itself). Basically, you remove two screws and pull the stock off, without knocking a big chunk out of it.

I’ve posted some pictures showing various “Winchester Definitive Proof” marks (the oval with a P superimposed on a W). Winchester fired each gun (after it was built) with a proof load generating higher than standard pressures to insure the gun was safe with standard factory ammo. Beginning around 1906, they stamped the barrels with their “(PW)” near the caliber designation. Within a few years, they started stamping both the receiver and the barrel and they continued the practice for decades. They used it as an advertising point and were quite proud of their “(PW)”. The stamp they used displaced the metal and cause a slight raised edge around the marking and it disrupted the finish. Compare these markings from various period Winchesters to yours and you’ll likely see a difference.







Definitive Winchester Proof lapel pin

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Even though I'm down in NC for the next couple of days seeing my son off, I can tell for certain that the proof marks on my gun are no where as sharp as yours - it must be a re-blue. The rest of the stampings looked pretty good, though, so it must have been a pretty good job. Oh well. Any idea what a re-blue (with nice wood ) might be worth?

I’ve seen refinished guns sell for a lot of money on the auction sites. I suspect it’s worth about the same as the 1873, but the photos just aren’t good enough for me to be comfortable with you taking my opinion to heart. There’s just too much money at stake. If you can’t get better photos, someone needs to look at it before you make any decisions. I know, that’s what you originally asked for!


David Condon is in Middleburg, VA, which should be about an hour and a half away from you. I’ve never dealt with him, but he’s been an antique dealer for a long time and he would know. Whether he tells you or not is another matter.

If it was mine, I’d find and install an appropriate carbine rear sight, which could cost between $100 and $200. Thanks for posted the photos, I enjoyed looking at them. They’re both nice guns and I hope you’re into them right. How are the bores?

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IIRC, the '73 was a bit rough and pitted, with lands and grooves still visible (imagine that, on a black powder cartridge gun!). All I did when I got it was run a nylon brush w/Rem-oil down the bore when I picked it up, to knock any crud off and put a light coat of oil on it. The '92, IIRC, had an excellent bore, but again, it was just a patch down the bore, w/o a close bore-light inspection. I'll see if I can find someone with a bore scope at work for a better estimate on Wed. Do think a copper .44-.45 brush would cause any damage?

A bronze bore brush and some solvent would be fine. Follow with your oil. You won't need a bore scope to tell if it has a good bore, just a flashlight.

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Tony Wilcox over at Warrenton is also good with Winchesters.
I agree with the others that the 92 appears refinished.