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  #1  
Old 12-14-2009, 12:45 PM
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Default Hey Knife Guys and Gals!

I have recently had the unpleasant experience of losing my everyday pocket knife in the woods. It was my daily carry and it was pulled out of my pocket sometime during a recent excursion in the Appalacians and lost. So I am now in the market for a new knife. There are hundreds of thousands different knives out there so this is a harder task than I thought it was going to be.

My question to you, is what are the differences between the blade metals? I see a lot of 420HC and S30V. That means nothing to me. I am looking for a blade that will get sharp and stay that way for a while.

I have a diamond edged sharpening set, so I am assuming that will sharpen and kind of blade I get. Is that a correct assumption?

I'm not trying to discuss different blade shapes, opening methods, lock designs, in fear that will end up in a .45 vs 9mm type discusstion. So I'm mostly interested in the common metals used for blades and the advantages and disadvantages of them.

Any thoughts on ceramic blades?

Thanks in advance.
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Last edited by jeepjeepwhat; 12-14-2009 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 12-14-2009, 12:47 PM
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All I know is that the harder the metal, the longer the blade stays sharp but also the harder it is to sharpen them.

Here's a tutorial:
http://www.agrussell.com/Articles/a/109/
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Old 12-14-2009, 12:52 PM
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Check out this Benchmade info page. I kind of like the AUS8 type steels because I can sharpen them without too much fuss and they hold their edge fine with just a touch-up now and then. The harder steels like D3 etc hold the edge better but as BarbC indicated, will be more difficult to sharpen.

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Old 12-14-2009, 01:01 PM
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The big guns in the knife business have a metals page on their website. Look at Benchmade and Spyderco for example. As with everything else, it's a trade-off. For knife blades no stainless steel is as good as carbon steel for strength and edge-holding. If rust is not an issue (either by climate or by your attention to maintenance), go with a tried and true carbon steel like 1095. If you want stainless (which resists rust but is NOT rustproof), look at the current offerings on those websites. A hot all-around stainless steel knife metal for the past couple of years and still going strong is S30V. BTW, the "HC" in 420HC is for High Carbon.

No matter what the metal, the heat treatment it underwent is extremely important. A lesser steel heat treated properly will outperform a higher-end steel not properly heat treated.

Good luck with your search.
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Old 12-14-2009, 02:35 PM
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Of the new "wonder steels", I personally prefer S30V, VG10, and CPM154. But on the other hand, it's hard to beat 1095 as another poster said.

As with most things, you get what you pay for. Don't expect to pay $15 for a truly good pocket knife. Although there are decent knives to be had for that price range.

For modern type knives I like Kershaw, Spyderco, and Benchmade (stick to Blue or Black class). For a traditional slipjoint type knife, I've heard a lot of good things about Great Eastern Cutlery. Their blades are 1095 and have a good reputation. I don't have one of these yet, but am planning on getting one in the near future.

Some good sites for buying knives are:
Grand Prarie Knives
Knife Center
Knives Ship Free
New Graham Knives

Last edited by MR .44 Spl; 12-14-2009 at 02:42 PM. Reason: Typo's
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Old 12-14-2009, 02:50 PM
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Emerson will make you happy.
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Old 12-14-2009, 04:59 PM
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d2 and 154cm are very good, and very hard steel types. never use a high speed wheel to sharpen an expensive knife.
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Old 12-14-2009, 06:34 PM
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WallyWorld still carries the Buck 110 'Folding Hunter', a rather large pocket knife - but what a pocket knife - at a bargain price <$27! It is a sturdy lockback - of their standard 420HC steel, which is heat-treated by Paul Bos, a legend in his own rite. The knife is still made in Idaho, too, although the nylon belt sheath is a PRC import. Some stores, like 'Academy Sports', etc, have it with a Mexican-made leather sheath. 'Bass Pro' has it made with an upgrade blade steel - CPM154 -~$75, while 'Cabela's' has their 'Alaskan Guide' version in S30V for ~$70. The base 420HC is fine, too - and more easily re-edged. Great knife.

They - Buck - also have the best bargain in an S30V blade - their #347 Vantage Pro. I've seen it at $45 in Bass Pro - to a max of it's low list price of $75 - at that, it's still a bargain. US-made, it has a 'flipper' deployment of it's 3.1" S30V blade and a liner-lock to secure it - with CNC-contoured G10 scales. Great bargain in an S30V knife. Mine has a good home here!

Another great buy in an S30V blade is the Spyderco Native - once available from WallyWorld for <$40 - long gone, sadly. Still, at $60-$70, it's a great knife - had one for years.

Of course, Benchmade has some excellent knives of S30V, too - very nicely made, if not always as sharp as the Bucks and Spydercos. Pricey, too.

Stainz

PS If you don't have a Buck 110, well, you need one... a real knife icon!
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Old 12-14-2009, 06:38 PM
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I am obsessed with my leatherman surge, I don't know what I did without it
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Old 12-14-2009, 07:45 PM
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While you decide, beat feet to where you can buy a basic Swiss Army knife, like the Victorinox Spartan. You'll like it, probably, and it will get a knife in your pocket while you look for something more exotic.

I have a slew of other knives, and for some purposes, some are better. But I always have a SAK on me. When I don't, I need some tool that I haven't got. So I seldom carry my nice Stockman and Trapper patterns.

I carry the SAK in my pocket, and something larger on my belt, in a pouch sheath. This has worked well, but beware of how some cops may view "tactical" folders, even where they're technically legal. Some will give you grief over them and it'll cost money to beat the charge.

T-Star
P.S. Look for genuine, US-made Schrade and Camillus knives still on dealers' shelves. Those were good knives, and it's a shame that poor management and cheap Chinese and Paki competition caused them to close their doors. WARNING: the Schrade name is now used for knives made in China. I don't know how good they are, but the originals had a sterling reputation. They had brush-finished blades, but they cut fine. Puma offered better-finished blades, but one pays for that, as would be expected. If all you want is a working knife, the Schrade and Camillus brands are all that you need... if you can still find any. Some used 440A blades, but they were well heat-treated, and perform well. (I do prefer stainless. In spite of meticulous care, I've never been able to keep rust off of plain carbon steel blades, and the better stainless ones hold an edge far better than what some would have you believe.

Last edited by Texas Star; 12-14-2009 at 07:54 PM.
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  #11  
Old 12-14-2009, 08:04 PM
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I like the Cutco brand, I have both the small and the large one they are great knives and made in N.Y.
Brian
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  #12  
Old 12-14-2009, 08:35 PM
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ATS 34 is my preference.
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Old 12-14-2009, 08:40 PM
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I like the traditional carbon steels for ease of taking a edge and the ability to hold it. But most of the classics' are getting too collectible to carry. So.... like Texas Star said, I usually have a Swiss army knife (Victorinox or Wenger) in my pocket, they are hard to beat. They may not be the best at anything, but they do so many things well. Don't get one with 40 blades, just 5 or 6 of the most useful, and it will be thin enough to carry in a pocket. They stay pretty sharp, cut better than you might think.
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Old 12-14-2009, 09:28 PM
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I like the Benchmade brand, a little expensive but a precise instrument, they even have a lifetime sharpening service and best of all Made In USA, check them out.
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Old 12-15-2009, 12:31 AM
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Forget anything in stainless steel or any new Case in vanadium, they aren't worth the trouble.
Check out this website:
http://greateasterncutlery.net/
Go to thier distrubutors links and get on of these. I have several and they are a quality, American Made item. 1095 carbon steel, takes and holds an edge and the range of styles, retro, and handle material make anything else look like kids stuff.
I'm not knocking Benchmade, they make good items as do others, but for a hunting/pocket knife option you will not be dissapointed with Great Eastern.
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Old 12-15-2009, 12:42 AM
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Go to the Spyderco web site. You can read the EDGE-U-CATION section to learn a lot about their steels.
I did a survey on KnifeForum.com last year. Just used the steels used by the gurus; there were 50 guys, girls that I surveyed. Here (below) are the steels they preferred in their EDC (EveryDayCarry).


:: Spyderco Edge-U-Cation ::

Go to BladeForums.com; that's where lots of the guys hang out.

VG-10 26
ZDP-189 11
S30V 9
H-1 2
ATS-55 2

I have VG-10 in the Caly3. Cut my finger twice in the first 3 days. I just "touched" my finger to it on day one and brought blood. Honest, it is that sharp.
Sonny
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Old 12-15-2009, 07:38 AM
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+1 on the Buck 110, my favorite "go to" knife for dressing out deer, or any other game
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:21 AM
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Wow, thanks so much for all of the information. It doesn't look like this is going to be an easy task for me. Thanks to you guys I now have a full days worth of research and reading ahead of me. I'll keep you posted on what I come up with.
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepjeepwhat View Post
...
My question to you, is what are the differences between the blade metals? ... I am looking for a blade that will get sharp and stay that way for a while.

I have a diamond edged sharpening set, so I am assuming that will sharpen and kind of blade I get. Is that a correct assumption?
...
Any thoughts on ceramic blades?
...

Modern stainless steels, such as that designated, "440c", "Laminated VG10", or "1095 cro-van", have a Rockwell hardness rating of between 56-60 and will require a diamond sharpening system. They're harder than most carbon steel and will stay sharp for an incredibly long time. They don't come in cheap knives, though. Figure on over a hundred bucks, minimum for a good one.

So-called "ceramic" blades are also metallic, but they're usually made of a sintered amalgam of metallic oxides. They tend to be very rigid, but very brittle. They're easy to sharp and hold an edge very well. There's one Japanese manufacturer that's making good ones, though I can't remember who, but other than that one, I'd avoid them in preference to something from Puma, Fallkniven, Ka-Bar or some such quality manufacturer.

It happens I've got a couple I'd be interested in selling, new in box and unused. Email me at the address in my "user" profile if you take a notion.
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Old 12-15-2009, 12:18 PM
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E-bay is a great place to shop for knives. Then too, Smoky Mountain Knife Works in Sevierville TN is a mecca for knife lovers.
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Old 12-15-2009, 12:57 PM
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This is the way I am leaning right now. The blade is made from 154CM, which doesn't sound like a bad blade, not the best but I haven't found anything bad about it. If anybody has had/heard of problems with 154CM I will be very receptive!



It is a benchmade 556s. It pretty much has everything I was looking for:
good name brand
good locking mech.
half serrated
easily opened but not assisted
smallish in size
clipable
and brightly colored (I could have found my old knife if it would have been brighlty colored)

If anybody has experience with this knife good or bad I would really like to hear about it.

Price tag is $90 from benchmade $60 from ebay.
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Old 12-15-2009, 01:05 PM
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SMKW is ok. 95% of their knives are Tai, Chinese or Paki. You'll do better for selection and prices online.
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Old 12-15-2009, 01:06 PM
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Our Blades | Benchmade
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Old 12-15-2009, 01:09 PM
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154CM is a good knife blade metal and really holds an edge. It took me a while to learn how to sharpen it properly.
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Old 12-15-2009, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe in SC View Post
154CM is a good knife blade metal and really holds an edge. It took me a while to learn how to sharpen it properly.
What was the secret for a proper edge?
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Old 12-15-2009, 03:23 PM
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I am glad you are leaning towards that Benchmade.

First of all, it is easy opening. Just pull back the lock and flip your wrist and it will open faster than an assisted model and easier (since the lock is so big and easy to access) than any push button/switchblade.

Secondly, as another poster said, Benchmade has a sharpening service for the life of your knife (or maybe it's your life ) and all it costs you is $5 for the return postage.

I sent cash last time, and actually sent 6 one dollar bills. When I got my knife back, one of the dollar bills was enclosed with a nice note. No, it wasn't addressed to "Dear Senile Knife Owner."

I use the Spyderco system to sharpen my Benchmades and just a few strokes usually restores the really, really, sharp edges. But, every year or so, the knives get a vacation to Oregon for a factory sharpening.

Bob
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Old 12-16-2009, 12:00 AM
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I've had a Swiss Army knife in my pocket since about 1962. I lost the first one which slid out of the patch pocket on my jungle fatigues when I was sitting in a chopper in RVN. My wife sent me another; I had to retire it about 2002 because the red plastic handle had worn to the point where the metal Swiss insignia was standing above the plastic and was very sharp. I have another one like it now. I use the rest of the tools a lot more than I use the blades, which is good since on all three knives, the blades were very soft;they sharpened quickly and lost an edge almost immediately. The small blade on my current knife has a wavy contour from prying open the latch on a door. They're good tools but as knives the blade quality is poor.
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Old 12-16-2009, 01:21 AM
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I also have a Benchmade 556 (mini-griptilian) on order, but with the standard blade and black scales. 154CM, D-2, & ATS34 are all quality steels that will take a very sharp edge and hold it. The trade-off is these steels take more time and effort to re-sharpen once they begin to get dull. Learning how to sharpen a knife properly is a skill worth learning!!!!!

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Old 12-16-2009, 01:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepjeepwhat View Post
This is the way I am leaning right now. The blade is made from 154CM, which doesn't sound like a bad blade, not the best but I haven't found anything bad about it. If anybody has had/heard of problems with 154CM I will be very receptive!



It is a benchmade 556s. It pretty much has everything I was looking for:
good name brand
good locking mech.
half serrated
easily opened but not assisted
smallish in size
clipable
and brightly colored (I could have found my old knife if it would have been brighlty colored)

If anybody has experience with this knife good or bad I would really like to hear about it.

Price tag is $90 from benchmade $60 from ebay.
That's a nice choice. I've got the same one, but with the black handle, and I really like it; great knife for the $$. I've got more than a few Benchmades, they are really nice knives...
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Old 12-16-2009, 10:28 AM
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A most excellent choice! The Axis is lock is truly the bees knees. 154CM is a fine blade metal. The "Grip" series handles are lightweight, durable and comfortable (and high vis in that color). The partially serrated blade makes it an all-around good cutter, the drop point gives it penetrating ability without making the blade too weak. I have more than one Grip or mini-Grip and don't have a bad thing to say about them. Oh, and you can choose any of four clip mounting positions: tip up or tip down; lefty or righty.

BTW, the thumb studs and Axis lock make for easy one hand opening (and closing with the Axis alone). A nice feature in general, and a must if you are in a predicament that prevents two handed use.

GO FOR IT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepjeepwhat View Post
This is the way I am leaning right now. The blade is made from 154CM, which doesn't sound like a bad blade, not the best but I haven't found anything bad about it. If anybody has had/heard of problems with 154CM I will be very receptive!



It is a benchmade 556s. It pretty much has everything I was looking for:
good name brand
good locking mech.
half serrated
easily opened but not assisted
smallish in size
clipable
and brightly colored (I could have found my old knife if it would have been brighlty colored)

If anybody has experience with this knife good or bad I would really like to hear about it.

Price tag is $90 from benchmade $60 from ebay.
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Old 12-16-2009, 10:37 AM
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I carry an Al Mar SLB in AUS-8 and a stainless French Douk-Douk in 440,it does anything I need done.

And for those that are going "what the HELL is a Douk-Douk??"



A selection of stainless and carbon Douks,yes it doesn't lock back-it's a slip joint.
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Old 12-16-2009, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jeepjeepwhat View Post
This is the way I am leaning right now.


I agree, this is a good choice, I have one in D-2.

Only suggestion I'd make is that you get the plain edge....serrated ones are difficult to sharpen correctly. Preston
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  #33  
Old 12-16-2009, 01:20 PM
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Well first of all I would like to thank everyone for the awesome information and advice. I was doing a little more research and decided to pull the trigger on the benchmade 556s in the yellow. I ended up paying $64 to my door (in 3-5 bus. days). I actually was planning on spending more money, but this knife had everything I was looking for and reading some of the forum members reviews, it was a done deal.

Again thanks for everyones help, I'll post again whenever it arrives and let you know what I think of it.
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Old 12-16-2009, 01:31 PM
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Enjoy!

PS: Something I didn't learn until recently: with the Axis lock you only need to pull on one side to release the lock, not both. You can use both, but you don't have to.
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Old 12-23-2009, 12:20 PM
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Well my new knife arrives yesterday, and the craftsmanship on this knife is remarkable! It is by far the most well put together knife I've ever owned. Its kinda hard to explain, but if feels very solid. I had to change the clip from the right side to the left side, but that was only 3 little torx screws. Thanks to Sears Tool department, it was a simple procedure. The last couple of days I've been just openening and closing it, to get it broken in. It was a little tough at first but has really loosened up after a couple days of use. The specific hand feel is different from my last knife and I haven't gotten used to that yet. It is different but not a bad thing. It's just going to take a while to get used. Overall I am very pleased with it. The blade came wicked sharp and seems it is going to stay that way for a while. Thanks again for all the advice.
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:21 PM
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Be aware that if a cop can flick your knife open one-handed, as with the Benchmade Axis lock, you may be charged for carrying a "gravity knife."

As for the man who warped the small blade on a Swiss Army knife by prying a door open with it...that's not its intended purpose. I've also seen some that had had the points broken by using them as screwdrivers. The knife has screwdrivers. Use them! Other knives will also break if used as screwdrivers. That is the most common knife breakage that I've observed.

That said, Swiss Army brands will probably replace the damaged blade, and the last I checked, they weren't even charging for that. They, and many of their dealers, can also replace the worn handle scales.

There are better knives for some needs, but the Victorinox SAK's are probably the best knife VALUE on the market. Wengers are also good, although I once had a handle scale come off of a Wenger. They later changed the means by which they attach handles. Wengers do seem harder to sharpen. Or, they were. Victorinox bought Wenger, and they may now use the same steel.

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Last edited by Texas Star; 12-23-2009 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 12-23-2009, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepjeepwhat View Post
Well my new knife arrives yesterday, and the craftsmanship on this knife is remarkable! It is by far the most well put together knife I've ever owned. Its kinda hard to explain, but if feels very solid. I had to change the clip from the right side to the left side, but that was only 3 little torx screws. Thanks to Sears Tool department, it was a simple procedure. The last couple of days I've been just openening and closing it, to get it broken in. It was a little tough at first but has really loosened up after a couple days of use. The specific hand feel is different from my last knife and I haven't gotten used to that yet. It is different but not a bad thing. It's just going to take a while to get used. Overall I am very pleased with it. The blade came wicked sharp and seems it is going to stay that way for a while. Thanks again for all the advice.

I think you'll like that knife very well. You may prefer to keep the edge sharp with ceramic hones, the rodlike ones.

Let us know how it works out for you. I do own one Benchmade, and like it very well. It came really sharp, and has been a great knife. I quit carrying it only because I was afraid that some cop would hassle me over it. Not that I fit the profile that a cop is likely to hassle, but these days, they may search someone over any excuse, like seeing a knife pouch on a belt. This applies only to those cops on a power trip, but there are some. The ones that I really worry about are working off duty in stores, where they seem bored and looking for excuses to hassle someone. One used book store here has had some who seem to want to intimidate shoppers. Most are non-white, which may be part of the problem. I think that in their "communities", they have been conditioned to see knives only in a negative context.

Otherwise, the Benchmade knives are a fine idea.

T-Star
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