Norm, for best accuracy with the M 70, the front and rear guard screws should be tight, but the one in the middle, just behind the magazine, should be fairly loose. Also if yours has a screw from the stock into the barrel, it should be loose. These things help the accuracy.
I have a pre 64 Featherweight 30-06 with a Bushnell 4X post scope. Great deer rifle but not in as good a shape as those I've seen so far. My first deer rifle was a Marlin .35 caliber lever action but I now have a Marlin .44 Model 1894 that makes a great rifle for close (swamp) hunting and doubles for home defense. Nice to see people taking such good care of these fine firearms. Steve in Vermont.
Two pre 64's.
1949 vintage standard sporter 30-06. All original, shows a little use, but nice.
Also have a post war 300 H&H. Has been rebuled and an aftermarket pad added.
Also two post 64's.
Classic featherweight 30-06 I bought new and is what I hunt with the most.
Older push feed Heavy Varmit in .223. Blued action, stainless heavy 26" barrel in a HS stock, all factory. It puts 50gr balistic tips in the same hole if you do your part.
I have one I hope someone here could explain. I purchased this from a trustworthy man I've known for years. He says he ordered this rifle new for his friend in the late 50's. He bought it back from the friend's widow after his death and sold it to me. The gun is supposedly unaltered, and appears so to me, as it is in immaculate condition. It is a Featherweight 243, and the serial number is 113xxx. That's too early for this configuration!!! Could Winchester have had some actions laid back and used them at a later date? Can you get a letter on them like an S&W?
Greg:
The receiver of your Model 70 was stamped at the Winchester factory the first half of 1949. Two new calibers were brought in during 1955, between serial numbers 323,531 to 363, 025, the 358 Win. and the 243 Win, both based on the 308 Win case.
Are you certain you're reading the serial correctly, the first number wouldn't be a 4 maybe? The Monte Carlo stock showed up around 1952.
Here's two I picked up just before Christmas. A 1950 Supergrade and a 243 Featherweight. I'm at 13 pre-64 M70's and 1 M54.
Are you certain you're reading the serial correctly, the first number wouldn't be a 4 maybe? The Monte Carlo stock showed up around 1952.
No sir! It's a crisp, clear #1. That's what threw me as well. I just imagine that action layed around the factory for years for some reason beofer someone picked it up one day and used it. If not, I don't know. I really don't think the rifle has been messed with.
Your 243 F/W looks just like the 243 F/W I just bought. Winchester did have running changes because containers of components were not used in any specific order as nothing was discarded regardless of an update in component changes. So the new updates were fazed in as the assembly line bins emptied.
In Roger Rules book he describes how some 338 and 264 win mag would show up with serial numbers dated 2 to 3 years before these models were produced. Reason being, the receivers were serial # stamped and put aside, for whatever reason, and used at a later date. Same with the dates on some barrels, they can be 2-3 years earlier than the receiver. By the mid 50's Winchester stopped stamping the barrel date on the barrels.
My 243 F/W is a tad unusal as well. It was made in very late 1959, earlier 1960 and has an aluminum buttplate. Most F/W's by that time had the composite buttplate. But again, Winchester did not waste parts and used what was there within reach. Near the end of the run, they came across some F/W stocks with aluminum buttplates and sent them on out.
The odd thing with your F/W is, the serial number predates the first 243's by 5 years and if your's is late 50's, even more so. I'm certain that Cody has the records for the pre-64 M70. Yours would be worth a letter as it may be a rare oddity and have a special collector interest.
I just took it apart and looked...the underside of the barrel has no marking, save for a small index mark dead centerr of the bottom where the barrel meets the reciever. Mine has an aluminum buttplate that is black. The museum in Cody doesn't appear to have records for model 70 made this late. It appears there was a fire in the late 50's, and a lot of the records were destroyed in it. I guess I'll never know.
Last edited by gregintenn; 01-24-2011 at 02:23 PM.
I thought you might enjoy some history I uncovered on the "pre-1964" Winchester Model 70.
John
It was called “the rifleman’s rifle.” The pre-1964 Winchester Model 70 has long been noted by many experts as perhaps the best bolt action hunting rifle ever made. Its predecessor was the Model 54, which was produced from 1925 to 1936. This was a fine bolt action rifle, but the bolt, safety and stock were not designed for the use of telescopic sights.
The much-improved prototype Model 70s were first produced in 1935. Nineteen rifles were manufactured in that year, but none left the factory. In 1936, the first production guns were warehoused (through serial number 2,238). In 1937, these were cataloged and sales began. The Model 70 continued many of the features of the Model 54 including the 1903 Springfield-type coned barrel breech, the dual front locking lugs, the receiver-mounted ejector, and the Mauser-style non-rotating extractor which gave controlled cartridge feeding. A gas port was placed on the right side of the receiver ring, allowing gas from a possible punctured primer to escape without being directed to the shooter’s face. The military-type wing safety of the Model 54 was scrapped and replaced with a bolt-sleeve safety working in the horizontal plane, allowing mounting of scope sights. The stamped one-piece trigger guard/floorplate of the preceding rifle was abandoned for one with a milled trigger guard and a hinged floorplate incorporating a plunger release. The bolt sleeve was re-contoured to a more attractive contour. While the Model 54 had a trigger-actuated bolt release, the Model 70 had a receiver-mounted bolt stop separate from the trigger. Finally, the new trigger mechanism, which was no longer encumbered by also being a bolt stop, was simple and easily adjustable by the user for weight of pull and for overtravel.
From 1937 until 1964, the Model 70 went through a number of cosmetic and mechanical changes. The original thumbpiece safety (which entered the field of vision when in the safe position) was modified with a transitional and later perfected thumbpiece. These latter two safeties operated on the right side of the bolt sleeve and operated silently with three positions – fire, safe with bolt manipulation possible, and safe with a locked bolt. This arrangement has been widely copied on custom and prestige rifles today. The shape of the receiver tang was altered from a cloverleaf to an elliptical configuration in later production to lessen the chance of a split stock in that area. Early and transition guns had an enlarged-diameter section on the barrel which mounted the rear sight and accepted a forward (third) stock screw.
Pre-World War II rifles (up to early 1942) have serial numbers from 1 to about 60,500. The bolt shrouds on these will be flat on top rather than round, and the bolt handle will have a 90-degree step at the base. Pre-war rifles will all have charger clip slots in the front of the rear receiver bridge. Later (transition) guns had these only by special order or on the target rifles in .30-06 only. These early guns will not be drilled and tapped on top of the receiver for scope mounts. However, they will have two drilled and tapped holes on the left side of the receiver for peep sights; early scope mounts also utilized these holes for scope mounting.
“Transition” guns were made from 1945 until 1951. Serial numbers ranged from 60,500 to 87,000 on the standard actions, and from 63,200 to 121,700 for magnum actions. Apparently two assembly lines were used for these two different actions. The safety was changed so it was swung to the muzzle to fire. These rifles have two scope mounting holes on the rear bridge, and the top of the receiver had no recessed wavy lines as did later production. The rifle illustrated is a standard transitional rifle in caliber .30-06, manufactured in 1949. As a point of information, most rifles have the year of manufacture stamped on the bottom of the barrel just in front of the receiver.
Final pre-1964 production was carried out through late 1963, ending at serial number 581,471. The safeties on these had an extension which projected over the side of the sleeve. In 1964, Winchester could no longer afford making Model 70s the old way, which was to virtually hand-craft them. Skilled labor was costly. The “new” Model 70 which featured cheaper construction, a push-feed action, sloppy barrel free-floating with an unsightly excessive gap and impressed checkering, started at serial number 700,000. The era of quality had come to a grinding halt.
Standard grade rifles featured plain walnut stocks with hand checkering on the fore end and the handgrip area. Monte Carlo (elevated comb) stocks were offered on special order or in later production as a standard item. Most had 24” barrels. Featherweight guns were introduced in 1952. These featured a shorter 22” barrel with no rear sight boss, and the trigger guard and magazine cover were made of black anodized aluminum. The buttplate was also aluminum instead of steel, and the stock had two 7-inch holes drilled under the buttplate. The Super grade guns had rather bulky cast quick-detachable sling swivel bases. The magazine covers for these had “SUPER GRADE” stamped on them. Redfield sourdough front sights were used, and the wood was a higher grade with more figure and deluxe wrap-around checkering. These had grip caps and black forend tips. They usually have engine-turned decorative polishing swirls on the bolts. The Westerner rifles were available in either .264 or 300 Win. magnum, and had 26” barrels. The Alaskan versions were chambered in either .338 Win. magnum or .375 H&H magnum, and had 25” barrels. The African rifles were chambered in .458 Win. magnum and had 25” barrels. Other versions were the “carbine” with a 20” barrel (1936-1946), Super grade Featherweight, Super grade African, National Match, Target, Bull Gun, and Varmint. Calibers ranged from .22 Hornet to .458 Win. magnum. All actions were “long”, with blocks in the magazine to accommodate the shorter cartridges such as the .308 Winchester and .243.
Pre-1964 rifles have a mystique of their own. They were hand fitted and great care was taken in their manufacture. Minute of angle or sub-MOA groups were usually achieved. The Mauser-type action enabled controlled feeding, and chambering was reliable even upside down. The demand for a return to the pre-’64 action resulted in its eventual re-introduction as the “Classic” rifle by Winchester, although it was not strictly faithful to the original design. Winchester no longer makes firearms in New Haven, Connecticut, but the modern FN-owned facility in Columbia, SC is producing new Model 70s resembling the originals. These have a different trigger assembly and vary in smaller details.
The pre-1964 Model 70s have achieved cult status, and demand is high for examples in good clean condition. The “rifleman’s rifle,” when found, will command a substantial price, with the rarer calibers bringing premium sums. Accurate, refined, ergonomic, reliable and aesthetically pleasing, they are classic in every sense of the word.
The current (June 2011) issue of Dillon's Blue Press catalog/magazine features the article I wrote on the pre-'64 Model 70. Here's a quick snapshot of it. As always, it's copyrighted to Dillon Precision.
Subscriptions to the Blue Press are free for the asking, and may be ordered by calling Dillon Precision at 1-800-223-4570.
I recently was gifted a Winchester model 70 Pre 64 in 264 win. mag. Ser.#505xxx the rifle was missing the bolt action. I need info on what bolt i should be looking for. My understanding is that I need a magnum bolt and need it fitted to the rifle. I don't want to buy the wrong one. Any info. would be appreciated.
Thanks Tom
Here is a pic of a M54 that was topic of much conversation. but I never got a definitive ship date. It apparently lapped over into M70 production time. Anyone else that might have one like this, I would appreciate any info as to Mfg. date.
CRAWLMACHINE, welcome. I have collected and studied this model for over 4 decades so I do have a little knowledge on the subject. Sorry to say that while this is a nice looking rifle with a hideous scope installed on it, it is not a supergrade. Winchester never wrote supergrade on the barrel by the sight. It wrote it underneath the barrel and can only be viewed when the action is removed from the wood. Next supergrade swivels are entirely different from the swivels you have. On original supergrades, the words supergrade are stamped onto the floorplate. So while it is not a supergrade it is still a fine looking rifle.
CRAWLMACHINE, the photo of the floorplate appears to be an original supergrade floorplate. Again this is a nice looking rifle, but has been personalized by someone. The trigger is gold plated which Winchester never produced. The recoil pad aslo doesnt appear to be of Winchester manufacter. This gun might have been a supergrade with a modified standard grade stock. Anyhow keep us imformed as this is how we learn ourselves.
My dad had a pre-64 Model 70 in 300 H&H Magnum, new in the box. He sold it in 1976 when we moved to Arizona. When we moved back to Illinois, I met the man he sold it to...AND, he agreed to sell it back to me.
When I went to his house, he said, "The Weatherby was my main hunting rifle, and I bought your dad's as a back-up." I said, "When he sold it to you it was unfired." He said, "Well, it still is. I never pulled the trigger on it."
CRAWLMACHINE, the photo of the floorplate appears to be an original supergrade floorplate. Again this is a nice looking rifle, but has been personalized by someone. The trigger is gold plated which Winchester never produced. The recoil pad aslo doesnt appear to be of Winchester manufacter. This gun might have been a supergrade with a modified standard grade stock. Anyhow keep us imformed as this is how we learn ourselves.
To follow up, I striped the rifle apart and it has a 52 stamped on the lower part of the barrel.
It doesn't has the SG or similar stamp, which means its just a featherweight, with the "- Super Grade -" engraved by some counterfitter or whatsoever.
What can you tell me about the jeweled bolt? Ive seen bolts only with a hole on the knob,?
Crawlmachine, apparently you have a standard grade featherweight that has been enhanced by a former owner. The jeweled bolt was done afterwards as standard grades werent jeweled. Does your bolt have an engraved serial number matching the serial number of the reciever? Concerning the solid bolt handle on your rifle. The first year of featherweight production, late 1952 to early 1953, still had the solid bolt handle. In 1953 all model 70's has a drilled bolt handle. The floorplate is interesting. Is your triggerguard and floorplate aluminum or steel? If in question use a magnet to test. Yours should be aluminum. Lastly the floorplate has supergrade inscribed on it. It looks original. If it is original you should be able to sell it if you wish for a good sum and and allow you to easily purchase an original to the gun floorplate.
Bought another pre-64 Model 70, a Westerner, 264 Win Mag. . It should show up here any day now. . I think I'm up to 15 of them rascals . . geez, getting to be a habit.
I know this is an old thead, but I'm looking at picking up a pre '64 M70. I'm sort of confused about some features, though. The seller says it does not have super grade stamped on the floor plate, but the stock has all the features of a super grade (I think). It is chambered in 270. If any of the experts still haunt this thread, I'm all ears!
Towards the end of high school, I developed an interest in pre 64' model 70's and sought one in 30-06. I found a beautiful Featherweight model at the old Trigger Hill Trading Post in Salinas, CA when I was in junior college. No recoil pad and just beautiful. I loves 180 gr. bullets and shot factory loads sub MOA with not problem.
I've since found another 30-06 and a 300 H&H. Still on the look out for one in 264. Win Mag, .257 Roberts and a Featherweight in .243. I recently saw a Featherweight in 264 Win Mag a while back, which I didn't know existed. Way overpriced; it was in a tweaker Pawn Shop.
Once I read "Point of Impact" by Stephen Hunter, one of my grail guns is a pre war target model in 300 H&H
__________________
Cheers, Charles
SWCA #2442
Last edited by Malpasowildlifer; 06-13-2013 at 07:48 PM.
My father gave me his Mod 70, 30-06. It is a tack driver, made in late 50's. I have his win 94 32 win spc. and have bought another 94 in 32 spc. I have several other pre 64 winchesters also.
I am new to this forum. I found this thread very informative and fascinating depth of M70 knowledge here. About 20 years ago when e-bay still sold real guns I purchased a M70 Bull Gun and have struggled to get it authenticated. Hopefully experts here can help. The rifle has s/n 14757, 1938 production? It has a 24" bull barrel with a straight taper measuring .780 at the muzzle. It is marked MODEL-70--30-06 SPFLD.- It has target bases at the muzzle, on the front receiver ring and the barrel centered 6" forward of the receiver. It has a Lyman 48 WJS receiver sight and a globe front with aperture insert. The action is a cloverleaf tang with the safety on top of the bolt. The workmanship and finish on the action is simply exceptional as is the operation of the bolt and trigger. In horned mounts (sp) it has a Unertl target scope s/n 38587 with a 16x eyepiece. The stock is a full marksman style with a high straight comb and a beavertail style forend, in a beautiful figured dark walnut not checkered, with a full checkered steel blue butt plate and a nickel finished forend insert and sling swivel with 7 threaded position holes for a hand stop. A fixed blued sling swivel inletted into the butt with 2 mounting screws. The overall condition is excellent ++ and appears to have had very little use. One of the scope base screws in the front receiver ring is broken off. There is 1 factory hole d/t in the rear ring. I have fired numerous bug hole groups with Fed Gold Medal 168 S at 100 yds. with ease and the 10 ring at 200 is not a problem with the Lyman. Any information on the history will be greatly appreciated.
Here's my 300 H&H which I restocked from a block many years ago. I took a course in stockmaking at Rochester Institute of Technology from noted stockmaker Joe Balickie, and the following year he taught me how to checker.
The whole process was so labor-intensive that I've never tackled another one--this was my first and likely my last! SDH--you have my respect!
Here's my '49 standard grade, with a Lyman 4X in vintage Redfield Jr mounts. Caliber .30-06. Just got a '52 .270, also a standard grade. Awesome rifles, and I'm a lefty. Hopefully, my M70 affliction will stop at two...
Bob
As to the 243 shooting 2 and a half inch groups. I purchased a German Weatherby in 300, I could not get it to group well, thought because of the twist rate at 9 afoot it was due to lite bullets. Nope, had it rebedded, still no good, finally sent to Texas Hill people who found a broken base screw. One inch all day with 180 grain, sweet.
This is a great thread! I'm wondering if one of the experts might chime in here for me about barrel markings.
20 years ago I bought a Model 70 from a very old collector in Montana...he had a bunch of them! The one I bought is a Prewar Supergrade in 300 H&H Magnum (correctly marked "300 Magnum" on the barrel). The serial number is 48581, which dates it to 1942. It appears to have all the correct parts...bolt etched with the receiver serial number, SG marked magazine floor plate, standard SG stock with ebony tip, deluxe sling swivels, hard rubber Winchester marked grip cap, checkered steel buttplate, cloverleaf tang on the receiver, no screw holes on the top rear of the receiver, 26" barrel (measures 25.25 from the front of the receiver ring, and 26 from the gas port hole), integral front sight ramp, front sight hood, standard rear sight in front of the front receiver ring, etc.
I wanted to put a modern scope on it, but didn't want to ruin it by drilling holes in the rear of the receiver, so I had my father (a solid machinist) make a custom rear sight base that attaches to the two screw holes on the side of the receiver...it wraps around the receiver, and accepts a normal Burris ring. It looks great, and there is zero contact with the top of the receiver, but you have to look close to tell.
It's been 20 years since I had the action out of the stock, and I can't remember if I ever checked the markings on the bottom of it for date of manufacture, etc. I think maybe I looked years ago, and it was marked "41" but that could actually be some date research I did on a different gun.
In doing some research, I've seen people say that the barrel should be marked "Supergrade" in some fashion near the proof mark and date stamp, but I can't verify that. Assuming the rifle is all original, what should those markings be (realizing the year can be slightly off from the receiver date)?
I'm somewhat considering selling it, so if anybody wants to venture a guess on what it's worth, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts. I never shoot it, and I don't hunt any more, so it's just sitting in the safe. I will say that it proved remarkably accurate with Federal Supreme 180gr Nosler Partition ammo...3/4" 3-shot groups at 100yds. The fact that it shoots so well, and that I have a thing for old Winchesters makes me want to keep it...it has a 52C and 97 as brothers.
These aren't great pictures (just took them a few minutes ago), but I know we all love pictures!
A great looking old model 70 you have there GManBart. Everything looks original and in great condition. On supergrade guns the under barrel stamping should read "super" and be hand stamped. I would really appreciate a close up picture of the rear scope mount your father built. Stith was a company that manufactured the same type of rear base as yours though they used a hideous front mount that was installed in the rear sight dovetail.
2. Winchester introduced their first Feather Weight rifles.
3. I was born.
So this 1952 Model 70 is my Birthday Gun
If I remember correctly the 308 FW was not produced for the entire year of 1952, maybe only December. Anyone?
Note: I was born in December.
This one had a plastic stock when I bought it so I wanted something nice looking but shoot-able. So I contacted Accurate Innovations and they came through with an outstanding stock.
2. Winchester introduced their first Feather Weight rifles.
3. I was born.
So this 1952 Model 70 is my Birthday Gun
If I remember correctly the 308 FW was not produced for the entire year of 1952, maybe only December. Anyone?
Note: I was born in December.
This one had a plastic stock when I bought it so I wanted something nice looking but shoot-able. So I contacted Accurate Innovations and they came through with an outstanding stock.
Since this thread was new, my featherweight got an upgrade of a period Bausch and Lomb Balvar scope and mounts. In my opinion, these are very good scopes that don't yet command a lot of money when you can find them.
Post em up and keep this thread going! I love Winchesters.
A great looking old model 70 you have there GManBart. Everything looks original and in great condition. On supergrade guns the under barrel stamping should read "super" and be hand stamped. I would really appreciate a close up picture of the rear scope mount your father built. Stith was a company that manufactured the same type of rear base as yours though they used a hideous front mount that was installed in the rear sight dovetail.
Thanks for the barrel marking info!
I actually purchased a Stith mount shortly after I got the gun, but it was too ugly for my taste. Here are a couple of pics of my father's creation. You can just get a glimpse of the material he put between the mount and the top of the receiver to ensure there wouldn't be any finish damage....need to ask what he used, but it almost reminds me of a soft gasket felt. It's just a little tuft visible on the right side.
Aside from where the screw holes are, there is no contact between mount and receiver. It's not fancy, but looks reasonable, and is way better than drilling holes where they shouldn't be
I have had the following,
1949 standard 30/06
1955 featherweight in 308
1959 actioned match rifle in 30/06 just the bbl had been replaced
1957 match rifle
1928 M54 carbine with sewer pipe bore but still have the action and a bishop sporter stock for it
Couple pre '64 win 94's
and finally all that is left is a post '64 M70 match rifle. Enjoyed all of them except the featherweight as the stock design cheek piece would smack you in the jaw each time you shot. Frank
I sold mine except for 3, all in 270 Win. My Dad's Standard, a Featherweight and a custom one. The "customization" was done before I got it.
I've had 2 different collections of pre 64's over the years. Several prewar with one a Super Grade, 2 in 257 Roberts, 8 or 10 in 270 Win, Supergrades 300 H&H and 375 H&H, probably 10 or 15 in 06, a 243 featherweight, 4 in 264 Win MAg and a 308 Win.
Right ow in addition to the 3 keepers I have a standard stock and I believe a 1951 30-06 standard target BBL. I would love to stumble across a rough cheap action. I know I have the cheapest portion in hand. If push comes to shove I may have the BBL cut back on the threaded end and have it fitted to a, some of you may want to gather up the kids and leave rather than reading whats next, a push feed post 63 action. It would make a nice and accurate hunting rifle.
A pre-64 Winchester 70 in .30-06 was on my acquire list. Found one this summer a 1949 vintage .30 Gov't 06 standard grade with a Lyman peep. No pics on this computer. Need to think about glass for it.
It goes with my 1964 (not pre-) Winchester 70 in .225WIN with bull barrel wearing a 10x Unertl.
I have owned several pre-64 model 70's, and all have been well made, reliable rifles.
The one pictured is a .308 Featherweight with a steel tubed Weaver 4x scope in swing away mounts. It maintains zero, and will group 3 shots into a hair over an inch from a cold barrel with loads it likes.
I was into M70s back in the early 70s. I had 22 of them, from
Hornet to 458. Now I only have 3. My favorite rifle is a FW 308
the first deer rifle that I bought new.
I have a model 70 ,pre 64 made in 1949 .The barrel says 300 MAGNUM
but it is a 300 H&H. Did they even have a 300 win mag in 1949 or has some one changed out the barrel
I have a pre 64 model 70 made in 1949 the barrel is marked 300 magnum
it is not 300 win mag it is a 300 H&H . could this be right ?
The 300 win mag was not yet born. It should be a 300 H&H.
I had an early 50's in 300 H&H and it too was marked 300 Magnum.
Note, some were rechambered for 300 Weatherby, if a 300 old Magnum is fired in the rechamber it will fire form to the Weatherby case size.
I did not realize this post predated me here until I happened to notice the date part way down page 1.
rough count, I've owned 3
SG's in 300 Mag, 375 H&H Mag and a low digit pre war 30-06.
I've owned 6 or so pre war models, 10 or so transitional models in 20, 30-06, 257 Roberts. I've owned 4 or 5 264 magnums in the standard, 1 featherweight 264, 1 featherweight in 243 and one in 270 Win. I've owned probably 15 early 50's to 63 ones, most were in 270 and 30-06 and a standard 375 H&H. I've had 2 custom ones and still have one of them.
I do have Rules book, Mrs Model 70 bought it for me one Christmas.
Speaking of Mrs Model 70, her first deer rifle was a custom pre 64 model 70 she flat stole from me. I had a custom 6.5 Swede on a new commercial mauser action, perfect for her, nope she looked at the guns in the safe and pulled out my favorite one, the one I used. This was almost a disaster. Luckily I had 10 or so scoped pre 64's sighted in and 6 or so off brands, like Weatherby, ready to go.
The gun has worked well for her, she has shot many deer with it.
Last edited by model70hunter; 12-01-2016 at 11:02 PM.
It appears there was a fire in the late 50's, and a lot of the records were destroyed in it. I guess I'll never know.
posted earlier
A Zeiss will be on it.
Linear Mode
