Gripping a 1911

[creekman]

recently got 1911. Last night read that one should ride the safety with right thumb (if right handed)...rather than the two thumbs forward - one on top of other most of us use.

Tried that today, and shot terrible...and my weak hand wanted to come off the gun after a few shots.

Can anyone help me with this?

[Kanewpadle]

Tuck your left thumb under the safety. Both thumbs forward.

[lrrifleman]

Most of my 1911 shooting is one-handed. While I would like to have my thumb ride the safety, I tend to shoot better when my thumb is lower on the grip close to the magazine release.

[Tom_R]

The recommended grip on a 1911 is to ride the safety with h your right thumb. Some thumb safeties make that harder to do than others. I have a 1911 with a standard Dan Wesson thumb safety and it killed the web of my hand. I have a different 1911 with a Wilson Combat Tactical safety which is smaller and not as wide. It feels 10x better.

So that is the first part, does the safety that you have work wi H your hand?

You should still be using a thumb forward grip with your left hand as well. Even with your right thumb riding the safety.

[Goldstar225]

I followed the conventional wisdom of riding the safety for quite some time. Finally dropped my thumb below the safety and began shooting and controlling the gun much better. For some or maybe most people riding the safety works better but not for me.

[Imissedagain]

While there are several ways to hold your most useful thumbs with 1911s it just dawned on me ...... is that why the Yakuza only chop the little fingers?

[creekman]

Originally Posted by Kanewpadle

Tuck your left thumb under the safety. Both thumbs forward.

then the grip would be like my grip on other autos?

[Kanewpadle]

It should yes. The 1911 for most people is one the easiest guns to shoot. I shoot all my guns thumbs forward with the exception of my revolvers.

[ExcitableBoy]

Everyone's hands are different: long fingers, short fingers, thin finger, fat fingers, in between fingers, long thumbs, short thumbs, big beefy palms, slim palms... you get the drift. The physiological makeup of your hands, wrist, forearms, etc., and your physical strength are the prime considerations in what kind of grip is "right" for you

The "thumbs forward" grip is a fairly recent development in the semi-auto pistol world, mostly brought about by competitive shooters within the varied "games", of which there is the great consideration for speed, down to the thousandths-of-a-second. In many of these competitions, the loads are powered down from full-house defensive rounds that one might pack in a daily carry weapon. There is considerably less recoil thus allowing faster recovery times and faster course times. Most semi-auto competitors swear by the thumbs forward technique as being superior to "locking" your thumbs downward, as in two-handed revolver shooting, which is (still the proper grip for wheel guns.

That being said, thumbs forward is not necessarily the best practice for truly defensive purposes. do whatever feels best and works best for you.

As for myself, I have large hands with thick, medium-length fingers, and a have lot of body strength. I shoot both semis and revolvers the same way, with thumbs locked while two-handing. I have tried thumbs forward; it feels alien, and just doesn't work for me. Those thumbs hangin' out in the breeze don't feel right, and I ain't too darned worried about a few thous' of a second recovery time in a defensive situation. Being quickest out of leather, having a strong, comfortable grip and getting sights on target pronto are my priorities.

But, hey, to each his own.

[Kanewpadle]

Originally Posted by ExcitableBoy

Everyone's hands are different: long fingers, short fingers, thin finger, fat fingers, in between fingers, long thumbs, short thumbs, big beefy palms, slim palms... you get the drift. The physiological makeup of your hands, wrist, forearms, etc., and your physical strength are the prime considerations in what kind of grip is "right" for you

The "thumbs forward" grip is a fairly recent development in the semi-auto pistol world, mostly brought about by competitive shooters within the varied "games", of which there is the great consideration for speed, down to the thousandths-of-a-second. In many of these competitions, the loads are powered down from full-house defensive rounds that one might pack in a daily carry weapon. There is considerably less recoil thus allowing faster recovery times and faster coarse times. Most semi-auto competitors swear by the thumbs forward technique as being superior to "locking" your thumbs downward, as in two-handed revolver shooting, which is (still the proper grip for wheel guns.

That being said, thumbs forward is not necessarily the best practice for truly defensive purposes. do whatever feels best and works best for you.

As for myself, I have large hands with thick, medium-length fingers, and a have lot of body strength. I shoot both semis and revolvers the same way, with thumbs locked while two-handing. I have tried thumbs forward; it feels alien, and just doesn't work for me. Those thumbs hangin' out in the breeze don't feel right, and I ain't too darned worried about a few thous' of a second recovery time in a defensive situation. Being quickest out of leather, having a strong, comfortable grip and getting sights on target pronto are my priorities.

But, hey, to each his own.

With thumbs forward , your thumbs are not hanging in the breeze. The should be in contact with the gun. Thumbs UP, then yes, they’re hanging out there.

You won’t always be strong enough to get by without applying good technique. The more surface you can come in contact with your hands, the better you will be able to control recoil.

[stansdds]

Thumb position when gripping the 1911 depends upon the individuals hand size, the size and shape of the thumb safety, the shape of the grip safety and the shape of the grip frame where it meets the trigger guard.

The original design is best gripped with both thumbs on the grip panel. With an undercut trigger guard, a high swept beaver tail grip safety, and a thumb safety with wide shelf, the high grip with the thumb on the safety becomes doable. When I was competing in IPSC/USPSA matches with a customized 1911, it became second nature to draw the pistol, thumb high and as the pistol was pointed down range, the thumb dropped onto the safety, putting the pistol in fire mode, and the thumb stayed on top of the safety until I finished the course of fire. With an original pattern 1911, that is not really practical, but it was fast and controllable with a customized 1911.

[M29since14]

Originally Posted by creekman

recently got 1911. Last night read that one should ride the safety with right thumb (if right handed)...rather than the two thumbs forward...

I understand what they are up to. They don’t want you to inadvertently snick the safety lock to safe when the gun recoils. It’s a nice thought, but it doesn’t work for me. I have only one bit of advice for holding a 1911: as high as possible, or even higher.

To do that, in my case I prefer the A1 version, with beavertail and Commander hammer added. A checkered front strap is invaluable, also.

I have been shooting 1911s a LONG time now, and many, many of them. I have never accidentally engaged the safety lock. My thought would be, if that ever happens, the safety lock needs adjustment.

[3rdgeargrndrr]

Originally Posted by M29since14

I understand what they are up to. They don’t want you to inadvertently snick the safety lock to safe when the gun recoils. It’s a nice thought, but it doesn’t work for me. I have only one bit of advice for holding a 1911: as high as possible, or even higher.

To do that, in my case I prefer the A1 version, with beavertail and Commander hammer added. A checkered front strap is invaluable, also.

I have been shooting 1911s a LONG time now, and many, many of them. I have never accidentally engaged the safety lock. My thought would be, if that ever happens, the safety lock needs adjustment.

Yep, I was told to ride the safety just to make sure you flipped the safety off and dont inadvertently engage it while shooting.
Otherwise, just train to snick it off when drawing and you will be fine.
If you have a very serrated slide, like on the newer Kimbers, the thumbs up hold could cheese grater you while shooting

[jlrhiner]

Here ya' go;

YouTube

[Bayou52]

Everyone is a bit different as has been said. For me, with the pistol beaver tail firmly setting against the webbing between the thumb and index finger, it's right thumb over the safety and left thumb on the face of the slide stop.

But then again, I'm using the SR1911 which has a rather generous amount of surface space on the safety. I've shot several Colts that had safeties with noticably narrower surfaces. And on these, it was very uncomfortable (for me) to ride the surface of the safety. So, it was thumb under the safety on these Colts.

Bayou52

[CA Escapee]

I find that when I ride with my thumb up on top of the safety I don't always depress the grip safety. (Small paws + older series '70 pistols = no joy.) But all of my 1911s will go bang when I shoot with my thumbs below the safety. Use what works for you.

Trivia question: Who started shooting with thumbs forward?

Hint: The Combat Grip - Handguns

Bill

[CA Escapee]

Originally Posted by Kanewpadle

With thumbs forward , your thumbs are not hanging in the breeze. The should be in contact with the gun. Thumbs UP, then yes, they’re hanging out there.

You won’t always be strong enough to get by without applying good technique. The more surface you can come in contact with your hands, the better you will be able to control recoil.

One of the gun writers, (and a cop, Duane Thomas(?)) shoots with his thumbs forward and not touching the frame. Do what works for you.

Bill

[tg4360]

The safety is a control, not a thumb rest... Unless it's one of those gigantic thumb rests/safeties.

You're grip and your control of the firearm are personal...

Try various things and keep what works.

[Grayfox]

Most people don't realize just how adaptable the 1911 grip is. Standard, thick or thin grips, arched, flat or bobtailed MSH, standard, long, short triggers, grip safeties and beavertails. Then there are all manner of thumb safeties and slide releases. With a little experimentation, the 1911 can be custom fit to your hand.
As for thumb position, go with whatever works for you.

[BAM-BAM]

Originally Posted by tg4360

You're grip and your control of the firearm are personal...

Try various things and keep what works.

^^^^^^^ Ditto......After 50 years with a few grip changes along the way......I tried but didn't adopt the thumbs forward grip which IIRC only appeared about 10-18 years ago..... did not feel natural nor instinctive to me.

..... IIRC development of instinctive muscle memory requires 2000-4000 reps.

[jake1945]

I shoot my 1911 with thumbs forward. All ten of them. Yea, I'm all thumbs when trying to do anything. 8-)

[Rastoff]

As has been said, there's no one right way to do it. However, there is a starting point. Here's how I teach those new to the 1911 to hold it:




Shooting hand thumb on top of the safety. Thumbs relaxed.

We all only care about one thing when shooting a gun, where the bullets go. If the bullets are going where you want, change nothing. If they're not, something has to change.

Originally Posted by creekman

my weak hand wanted to come off the gun after a few shots.

This is a serious problem and should not happen. Try this: while pointing at the target, push a little with your shooting hand, pull a little with your support hand. This push-pull creates what we call isometric tension. It helps stabilize the gun. The key to doing this properly is not to use too much force with either hand. Just enough to help stabilize the whole platform.

[Kanewpadle]

It should be noted that while “do what works for you” is a good thing, there is a right way and a wrong way to grip a handgun.

Learn more than one way and choose what works. Otherwise developing bad habits now will be difficult to overcome later.

Positioning of the hands on a 1911 is no different than any other semi auto with or without a thumb safety.

[Pisgah]

The "proper" way to grip a pistol is any way that is comfortable for you and allows full control of the gun -- period. "Thumbs up" and "riding the safety" may work for some folks, but they cause more problems than they solve for most.

[Wee Hooker]

I shoot everything (with the obvious exception of revolvers) with thumbs forward. With a 1911 and/or anything with a manual safety, the safety is swept off with the right thumb as it goes under/into position. I'd argue that if you start holding different semi-auto pistols in different ways, it's going to mess with your mussel memory and resulting accuracy /control. Consistency is key.

[Kanewpadle]

Originally Posted by Pisgah

The "proper" way to grip a pistol is any way that is comfortable for you and allows full control of the gun -- period. "Thumbs up" and "riding the safety" may work for some folks, but they cause more problems than they solve for most.

There only so many ways to get a grip on a handgun and be in complete control of it. PERIOD.

[Rastoff]

Originally Posted by Pisgah

The "proper" way to grip a pistol is any way that is comfortable for you...

I respectfully disagree. I've seen many people continue to hold a gun in a way that was comfortable, but didn't allow them to shoot well. Of the few that would actually try a different grip, all of them shot better, but declared that they were uncomfortable so they were going back to what they used prior. If you're fine with poor shooting, who am I to argue with you?

Yes, comfort is definitely a part of the process, but being a little uncomfortable as you try something new that results in better performance is OK. It will become comfortable as you get used to it. I was uncomfortable with my thumb on top of the safety at first. But my shooting was so much better that I kept doing it. Now I find it very comfortable. This way I never miss taking the safety off, it never gets accidentally switched on and I have better control of the gun.

If you want to keep your thumb under the safety, fine. Just realize the risks associated with that position.

[Funflyer]

Originally Posted by Grayfox

Most people don't realize just how adaptable the 1911 grip is. Standard, thick or thin grips, arched, flat or bobtailed MSH, standard, long, short triggers, grip safeties and beavertails. Then there are all manner of thumb safeties and slide releases. With a little experimentation, the 1911 can be custom fit to your hand.
As for thumb position, go with whatever works for you.

Exactly!!!

The "experts" can debate how to grip a 1911 properly until the cows come home, but for many shooters that proper/reliable grip won't be realized until the pistol is set up to fit their hands.

[SATX]

The way I see it, how to properly hold a handgun is a basic guide that fits most people but not others. Experts say not to place your weak hand trigger finger on the the front of the trigger guard to stabilize the gun, but some people shoot better that way. Some say training will overcome this or that bad habit, I say if it ain’t broke why try to fix it.

[keith44spl]

Generally, slide tracks across the knuckle or web of the support hand
will sumtimes cure a in-correct grip.
But, in some folks it my take a time or two...and a lit'l more blood letting.

Thumbs on same side works for most.

.

Originally Posted by Grayfox

Most people don't realize just how adaptable the 1911 grip is. Standard, thick or thin grips, arched, flat or bobtailed MSH, standard, long, short triggers, grip safeties and beavertails. Then there are all manner of thumb safeties and slide releases. With a little experimentation, the 1911 can be custom fit to your hand.
As for thumb position, go with whatever works for you.

As Greyfox sezs, when fit to your hand, one gets the best resluts.

I personally like the arched mainspring housing, thicker stocks and a short trigger.

.

[Wise_A]

If you're planning on using the 1911 in some sort of defensive capacity, I would suggest that a "thumb high" grip with the primary-hand thumb riding the safety is the only way to go. Yeah, sure, you can practice sweeping it off and all that stuff, whatever. But having a thumb-high hold makes it damn hard to forget, or slip, or miss. It also allows you to hold the pistol at a low-ready position with the safety on, and disengage it as you come up into a firing position.

If going thumb-high causes your support hand to slip, then there are other problems with your grip that the thumb is simply masking. Typically, if you're really slipping your support hand badly, you should consider a slight bend to your arms. You can still maintain a forward pressure, in addition to also squeezing the gun from the sides.

[6string]

Lots of opinions....
If you want to shoot the 1911 well, the best source of info out there may likely be the U.S. Army Markmanship Pistol Manual

http://www.saveourguns.com/Ar_Marks_...rain_Guide.pdf

[Wise_A]

There are a couple things I would take issue with--I don't think any serious shooter believes in the "surprise" break anymore--but my biggest gripe with the AMU manual is that it spends a lot of time telling you what has to happen, and very little explanation of how to get there. Which is my gripe with lots of shooting publications and manuals.

I would also point out that it's written very specifically for Bullseye shooting--no support hand.

[6string]

OK, then. Alternatively, there is this:

Encyclopedia of Bullseye Pistol

Brian Zins credentials, as a shooter and clinician, are well established. At the least, it's worth looking at.
Plus, much more on that site.

Learn bullseye and everything else is easy.

Jim

[hardluk1]

creekman Hold a 1911 the way it feels right to you . I sweep the safety and my thumb ended up under the safety but then I only shoot my first 1911 in 1972 . Still have one I carry some today . My wife caught me sweeping for a safety on my p320c . Ha

[bushmaster1313]

Originally Posted by creekman

Tried that today, and shot terrible...and my weak hand wanted to come off the gun after a few shots.

Can anyone help me with this?

^^^ A gripping question if ever there was

[WC145]

I was taught to use a strong one handed grip as the basis for all handgun shooting, further stabilizing that grip with your support hand when possible, because there is no guarantee that you will always have two hands available to shoot with. With the 1911 that means the shooting hand thumb is on the grip, under the safety. I find this to be much more stable than riding the safety, which is a method meant to be used with two hands, squeezing the grip between your hands, thumbs forward. But, using that method, if you remove the support hand you are left with an inherently weaker one handed grip. No big deal on the range but in real life where you might be fighting for possession of your gun, opening doors, picking up or moving things, holding someone behind you, etc., maintaining a strong one handed grip on your gun and being able to control it when shooting one handed is incredibly important.
And, in almost 50 years of shooting 1911s, I've never inadvertently engaged the thumb safety under recoil.

[zzclancy]

Originally Posted by WC145

I was taught to use a strong one handed grip as the basis for all handgun shooting, further stabilizing that grip with your support hand when possible, because there is no guarantee that you will always have two hands available to shoot with. With the 1911 that means the shooting hand thumb is on the grip, under the safety. I find this to be much more stable than riding the safety, which is a method meant to be used with two hands, squeezing the grip between your hands, thumbs forward. But, using that method, if you remove the support hand you are left with an inherently weaker one handed grip. No big deal on the range but in real life where you might be fighting for possession of your gun, opening doors, picking up or moving things, holding someone behind you, etc., maintaining a strong one handed grip on your gun and being able to control it when shooting one handed is incredibly important.
And, in almost 50 years of shooting 1911s, I've never inadvertently engaged the thumb safety under recoil.

Been doing it the same as you and in 46 years I've never had a problem with sweeping the safety on. I have a stronger better grip with this method.

[Wise_A]

Originally Posted by 6string

OK, then. Alternatively, there is this:

Encyclopedia of Bullseye Pistol

Brian Zins credentials, as a shooter and clinician, are well established. At the least, it's worth looking at.
Plus, much more on that site.

Learn bullseye and everything else is easy.

Jim

Brian Zins is, ironically, one of the shooters I was thinking about when I mentioned the outdated "surprise" break. Anyways, argument by authority.

I'm actually a bullseye shooter. I shoot thumb-high, never bothered me. But anyways, it's irrelevant. What I was referring to--defensive usage--and bullseye are different disciplines. Are there some carry-overs? Yes, and I frequently address them. And for some reason, it's probably necessary that I make it clear that I'm specifically referring to developing habits for defensive usage. I don't care what you do with a range gun.

Where you stick your thumb is not one of them. There are very specific reasons for doing so that simply aren't present in precision pistol sport. This is akin to "bellying up" to a piece of cover like it was an IDPA barrier--works great in one, but there are very specific reasons not to do it in the other.

Literally, I don't think the safety on my match gun as been in the "on" position since I installed it. There's simply no reason to activate it.

Originally Posted by WC145

But, using that method, if you remove the support hand you are left with an inherently weaker one handed grip.

Hate to break it to you, but if you remove one hand from any grip, it's inherently weaker. There's nothing vastly different between the two positions, only that some people haven't trained enough to become comfortable with one.

Anyways, by my count, you've leveled a "it works for me!" and a "killed in the streetz!" at me. Don't make me fire back with a "Saint Jeff Cooper sez!".