The M1A1 Carbine in combat

Frank46 · #51 09-22-2016, 02:28 AM

I have a Saginaw Stearing gear S.G. M1 carbine. Bought it about ten years ago for $500. First time I tried to shoot it kept getting FTF and FTE wasn't the magazine but the well in which the mag sat. On the left hand side was the biggest burr I have ever seen. One of the other shooters had a few small fine files and unloaded the carbine and filed away the burr. after that no more problems. Mine is one of the "blue sky" versions and the stock was badly cracked. Just so happened a nice lady had a brand new birch or beech stock complete with the upper hand guard.Swaped out the old wood and put the barreled action in the new stock. In looking it over I was delighted to find it had a Winchester barrel in extremely nice condition. On a good day can get 4" groups at 100 yds. This with Korean PS marked non corrosive ammo. Frank

crazyphil · #52 09-22-2016, 04:27 AM

My Uncle let me use one first half of 1953, but then he wanted it back.
Uncle Sam.

Jack Flash · #53 09-22-2016, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murphydog

"... 'If you can shoot one they're just as good as the AR type patrol rifles. ...'

Well now, let's not go overboard!"

Can't say I'd want to get hit with a 110 gr softpoint at 1800 fps or so. Sounds nasty.

...

I'll betcha wouldn't want to get hit with a 62 grain FMJ at 2,500 fps neither!

I agree that the little M1 Carbine was a great idea. It was designed to be issued to certain troops in place of the service pistol. In that role it excelled. I can shoot sub one inch groups with mine at 50 yards, something I've never been able to do with an M1911A1.

No one has more admiration for this dandy little carbine than I do. It could fill a home defense role very well indeed. But let's not get carried away.

old tanker · #54 09-22-2016, 10:24 AM

One of my company commanders in RVN acquired an M2 carbine, which he liked to carry when dismounted. Once, while accompanying the scout platoon, he used it in a firefight when they made contact. He fired the carbine, then an interesting thing happened. Since the carbine did not sound like an M16 or an AK, he drew fire from multiple sources, fortunately, ineffective. That was also the last time he carried it.

the ringo kid · #55 09-22-2016, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgrafsr

I had an original Inland carbine in mint condition that I found at a gun show. I knew the two dealers who had it and I got it for a very nice price as I had bought several guns from them before. I foolishly sold it to my buddy, who still has it, and I asked him once in a while if I can buy it back. Always tells me "NO".

I knew a guy whose office w3as in a building at CC Intl Airport--about 12 years ago. He had two Inlands which supposedly had most matching original parts. He wanted $500 each then-and I almost lunged but-they were so damned beat up--I passed on them.

Nowhere near as nice as these:

the ringo kid · #56 09-22-2016, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWalt

Many throw rocks at the effectiveness of the .30 Carbine as a battle weapon. Obviously it is not a Garand, and was initially never intended to be used as a battle rifle. Its purpose was to arm rear area personnel (cooks, truck drivers, clerks, etc.) and officers as a more accurate weapon than a .45 Pistol. But it caught on. Audie Murphy used one all during his service, and he felt it was perfectly adequate for knocking over Germans. I once worked with a former Marine officer who hit all the beaches during the WWII island-hopping campaign in the Pacific, and he carried a Carbine the whole time. He once commented to me that he never shot a Jap who didn't fall down, and if he wasn't stopped, it was because an American Marine missed his target. Regarding grouping, the typical Carbine will throw 5-shot groups between 4" and 5" ES at 100 yards. Plenty good enough for it to be effective out to 200 yards. One weakness discovered in Korea was that it had reliability problems in very cold weather. Lots of stories came out of Korea about the .30 Carbine being unable to penetrate the quilted suits worn by the Chinese and North Korean troops. That's simply a falsehood - never happened.

Before someone broke into our house-circa 1992--and stole my dads stuff, there was a photo of him with a Carbine in hands--"escourting" about 10-12 Chinese soldiers to?? and the funny thing about that is, my dad was about 5'4--and the prisoners all towered over him. My dad then, was in an Airforce Weather Detachment--and had captured those Chinese somewhere around the base of whatever hill they were on?

Thanks to thieves--we no longer have any photos of my dad in uniform--WWWII and Korea.

the ringo kid · #57 09-22-2016, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Flash

I'll betcha wouldn't want to get hit with a 62 grain FMJ at 2,500 fps neither!

I agree that the little M1 Carbine was a great idea. It was designed to be issued to certain troops in place of the service pistol. In that role it excelled. I can shoot sub one inch groups with mine at 50 yards, something I've never been able to do with an M1911A1.

No one has more admiration for this dandy little carbine than I do. It could fill a home defense role very well indeed. But let's not get carried away.

The guy who invented it in real life-and the actor who invented it in: Carbine Williams."

Jack Flash · #58 09-22-2016, 02:20 PM

The main limitation of the carbine was that the cartridge was designed first and then manufacturers were supposed to build a light firearm that could shoot it. As my Dad used to say, it was a glorified pistol cartridge.

Jeff Cooper rather unfairly compared it to the .38 Special. I liked a post I saw once where a guy answered Cooper's complaint by saying "Well maybe a .38 Special +P+ fired out of a 18 inch barrel."

Some companies only made a halfhearted effort when they submitted a design.

DWalt · #59 09-22-2016, 03:44 PM

This has probably been over 5 years ago, but there was an article in the American Rifleman mentioning David Williams' role in the development of the .30 Carbine. It wasn't much of a role. William's contribution was really only the invention of gas-operated short-stroke tappet. He was indeed initially on the Winchester carbine design team, but only briefly, as he proved disruptive to the team by being impossible to work with, so they got rid of him or put him off on doing something else - I don't remember the details. He wasn't the Jimmy Stewart personality type. As I remember, the movie "Carbine Williams" was quite a disappointment at the box office. Most of the audience thought it was going to be some kind of Jimmy Stewart Western, but it wasn't.

old tanker · #60 09-22-2016, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Flash

... it was a glorified pistol cartridge.

In some regards, but was more akin to the Winchester .32 and .35 self-loading cartridges. Winchester's Edwin Pugsley chose to design the cartridge with a .30 caliber, 100–120 grain bullet at a velocity of 2,000 feet per second. The first cartridges were made by turning down rims on .32SL cases and loading with .308 caliber bullets which had a similar profile to that of the U.S. military .45 ACP bullet. The first 100,000 cartridges manufactured were headstamped ".30 SL" (for "Self-Loading").

I think an interesting comparison can be made to the 7.62x25 cartridge in the PPSh-41 and PPS-43. Out of those subguns an 85 grain bullets at 1750 fps were pretty effective in places like Stalingrad with good penetration from a handy bullet hose at mostly short range. Conditions in the Pacific made the M1 carbine an attractive option. The full auto capability of the M2 would have found great favor, I think, with island hopping Marines.

There is some validity in having an overwhelming volume of fire to reduce the other guy's willingness to poke his head out to take an aimed shot back at you.

DWalt · #61 09-22-2016, 05:53 PM

"The full auto capability of the M2 would have found great favor, I think, with island hopping Marines."

Except relatively few made it into action before WWII ended. The M2 was in considerably wider use during the Korean War where it was discovered that it was problematic for for use in very cold climates.
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Interesting but unrelated factoid I read today: During the Korean war, the US fired more artillery shells than it did during WWII.