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Old 06-23-2010, 02:43 PM
gizamo gizamo is offline
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Default 1911's ~ Anyone Else? Love/Hate ParaOrdinance?...

Or Para/USA....

I've got this ongoing battle going with these 1911's. They are absolutely the Worse of the 1911's...bar none.

They are also the Best of the 1911's...bar none. I own one double stack that you could get to feed rocks....

Anyrate...they misnamed one gun ~ the GI Expert. The reviews trashed the gun because it was not even close to being a Milspec.

So of course...given the bad gunwriter publicity !!! I just had to have one. It's tighter than any of my so called Customs. Amazingly tight and the fitment is Superb!!!

That said, the mags that came with it won't let the slide release work!

God, I Love/Hate these guns! $%@XXX@
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Old 06-23-2010, 02:49 PM
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Had one of the original P12's back in the day, sold it, never got another. Prefer Colt, Springfield or Smith and now maybe a RIA. No particular reason. You asked.
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Old 06-23-2010, 02:52 PM
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My TAC Five is the slickest, most reliable "2011" I have.

There are a few things you don't do with a Para-Ord:
1. Use shock buffers. They aren't compatible with their recoil spring setup.
2. Use the slide catch to drop the slide on an empty gun. You can break a thumb trying. Also easier to load by slingshotting the slide than by dropping the slide with the release. RTFM
3. Use generic parts. Some parts are unique to Para.
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Old 06-23-2010, 05:12 PM
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I have a custom Para with a Caspian Hybrid slide. It's finished in electroless nickel.
It was made for pin shoots but also works well on steel targets.
I also used it at a couple of NRA Bullseye 2700 matches.

Great gun.
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Old 06-23-2010, 05:35 PM
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I have a box stock P14-45 that keeps on ticking no matter what. I haven't tried any of the newer offerings. I got this one new in 95 or so. It has had who knows how many rounds through it (tens of thousands easily). It is loose and rattles like a real old military 1911 but still keeps on shooting.

bob
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Old 06-23-2010, 06:06 PM
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I seem to have the worst luck with 1911's,my first large cal pistol was a Colt Commander that just wouldn't hit spit,fast forward almost twenty years later and I pick a GI Expert and....yep,the gawd forsaken thing will not work,I tried everything from lots of ball ammo,to polishing the slide rails and it wouldn't run for the life of me.

I traded it off for my M&P,that one just rolls right along

While I like the 1911 I think the 4506 is everything the 1911 should have been.
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Old 06-23-2010, 06:15 PM
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I have a long, deep seated love for the 1911 and own several. Yet the worst in my collection of them is a Para Ordinance.

It rattles when empty and it rattles when fully loaded. The slide has slack in it from side to side. It is less accurate than I am and has the worst trigger of any type gun I own.

I will never get rid of it for three reasons.
1. I hate to have anyone feel as I do toward a purchase.
2. It is just barely good enough to not throw away.
3. When I buy a gun I feel is bad, I get the Para out and play with it a while so I can feel better about the latest gun.
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Old 06-23-2010, 06:16 PM
HoosierMike HoosierMike is offline
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I have not had one of their 1911s but I have owned a LDA Carry Companion. Great DA trigger pull and accurate for a small frame gun.
It ate anything I fed it from hardball to SWC handloads.
I traded it off a couple years ago though.
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Old 06-23-2010, 06:21 PM
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I've had 3 Para-Ords, all LDAs, 2 in .45 ACP and one in 9mm. The double stack .45 was great to shoot, but it had absolutley the worst sights I've ever had on a 1911. No matter what I did, it always shot low. I thought the .45 Para Carry was too heavy for a CCW, but the 9mm was just about perfect. Too bad I realized that after I traded it off. While they're better than any Kimber I've ever owned, I think there are many better guns, especially for the price.
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Old 06-23-2010, 08:07 PM
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I think this a great thread...I too have the same opinion.
I have had 2 first was wonderful,and I traded it for something more expensive.Then just when I regreted it I got another and it was a ****.
I have since held off...this is one of those that if I find one I want to shoot it before I buy.

Jason
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Old 06-23-2010, 08:23 PM
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Red face Para -- Upgradeable Junk

All mine are double stack standard single action.

#1 is P13 45 ACP stainless with target sights. Accurate, shoots anything, and is 13 rounds of fun. It was a real deal used LEO gun for $550 -- traded because it was too heavy for concealed carry.

#2 is P16 40 S&W stainless with target sights. Barrel goes from rifled to smooth bore in one magazine. Lands are mirror bright and smooth. Grooves were rough cut and never finished/polished/lapped or whatever PA does to finish a barrel. Had a bull barrel (no bushing) installed, frame machined for a magwell, new trigger, hammer, sear, leaf spring, and disabled Series 80 safety for about $500. Accurate, fast, and only works with full power loads. Minimum muzzle flip.

#3 is P18 9 mm stainless with target sights. Again had to replace hammer, sear, trigger to get anything like a useable trigger pull. Heavy gun, accurate, and will work with medium to full power loads. 19 rounds is a blast.

#4 is P14 45 ACP stainless Long Slide with target sights. Again had to replace hammer, sear, trigger to get anything like a useable trigger pull. It is reasonably accurate but really fussy about loads. Too light it won't cycle, too warm and it becomes a jam-a-matic. Diffinitely draws attention at the range.

Some of the best $1000 "target match" guns you can buy that need $200 worth of attention to function.

#5 is P10 40 S&W that is all steel, boat anchor heavy, and just shoots accurately and reliably. Bought it used for a good price, have done nothing to it, and it works with the P16 loads.

I could have bought six S&W revolvers for the cost of #2 to #4 but there is all the 9 mm and 40 S&W brass laying on the ground for free. The Long Slide was bought just after the introduction hoopla at the Shoot Show -- a combination of impulse shopping and stupidity. You can't become a 'Gun Baron' if you sell off the lemons.
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Old 06-23-2010, 09:06 PM
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I've come close to buying a Para 1911 on a couple of occasions, but have held off after hearing about too many issues with them. I wanted a Para Carry for concealed carry. I really liked the LDA trigger, but after researching them, it seemed that you either got a great one, or one that has feed problems.

So, I ended up getting a Colt Defender, and it's a great gun; accurate and 100% reliable. I've never had an issue with any Colt 1911, so I stick with them... IMO, you can't go wrong with a Colt 1911.
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Old 06-23-2010, 09:20 PM
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I bought a Carry 9. Soon afterward I decided that was a big mistake. It would not run one mag full without a jam. I tried everything I could, short of sending it back, and got nowhere. Then the finish started to wear through everywhere it got touched by more than skin.

I traded it off and was glad to get rid of it. While doing so the gun store owner said he was trading against his better judgement because Para had the worst warrantee performance of any manufacturer and he had sworn off dealing with them before.

The gun was assembled poorly, the finish wanted to scratch off and it always jammed up. Self defense gun? I don't think so.
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:25 PM
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What? A thread with NO PICTURES?

I'll fix that!



BTW, I bought this nice LDA 14.45 Limited because I love shooting my Smith revolvers double action in matches.

1. It is very accurate
2. It WAS very unreliable
3. It is now VERY reliable

When I read the dedicated forums at a 1911 forum it seems that no other maker's forum has a 10th the level of complaints as does Para's.

I attribute some of the Para's bad rep to new magazines that need a little attention. That's all that was wrong with mine. I disassembled 'em, smoothed 'em out and my FTF's went away.

Then again . . . I've read some horror stories that I have no doubt are true.

One thing's for sure, their used and resale prices are really low, which motivated me to take a chance on this one. In that regard, I think of used Chrysler cars such as a Sebring convertible vs. the same year Toyota Solara convertibles . . . the resale price falls to about half the Toyota . . . but if you can find a good one that works and is reliable . . . and hope to keep it forever . . .

If this one turns into an incredible "keeper," I'll probably get it refinished to resemble my old, 1st generation Colt Combat Elite. Replacing that shiny black Para's PAINT job with a Royal Blue job . . . and replacing that rusty-smelling cheap frame finish with Hard Chrome would make a great looking gun indeed!

Time will tell.
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:35 PM
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Had a full size LDA in single stack. Tried some at the store and liked the LDA concept and feel.
Perhaps the one I ordered was a dog, but the LDA was very heavy, function was not reliable and it went back to Para twice with no significant improvement. I ended up trading it for a PPC revolver plus $200. and don't regret it.
Grips were a pretty cocobolo, though.
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Old 06-23-2010, 11:15 PM
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I really like my SS P12. It required a few hundred rounds of breaking-in, and as I recall, some tweaking of recoil and magazine spring weights to function flawlessly with my carry load. It's a bit much to CC under the lightweight clothing common in this climate, but when feasible, its my CC weapon of choice.
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Old 06-23-2010, 11:20 PM
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Don't like em. Not at all.

I used to work part time at a range. We had some Para's as part of a rental program. They all broke within 500 or so rounds. Sent them back to be repaired. They came back and two broke on the first rental.

I've shot several. Don't like the LDA. The were very accurate.

But there are many other 1911 guns that would be a better choice.
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Old 06-24-2010, 01:25 AM
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i had a p14 back in the day. couldnt get my mitts around that fat grip. wasnt too accurate or relaible. sold it before they came out with the thin grip panels. made a mint on all the hi cap mags i had for it that i paid 25$ for and sold in the clintoon ban for over 100+

have only bought colts since.

finally got rid of a dog kimber that i traded for a 60 no dash in the box with tools and papers + 300 cash to me. i think i got teh better end of that deal as well
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Old 06-24-2010, 04:26 AM
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Never again P14

I'll take my Colt or Wilson any day.
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Old 06-24-2010, 01:20 PM
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I purchased a 9mm PDA for my daughters carry gun. Neither of the factory supplied mags. would feed. Not only would para do anything about it they wouldnt even answer my emails.This was my first and last time for para
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Old 06-24-2010, 01:34 PM
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I've been handling and shooting 1911 pistols since I was 14 years old in high school ROTC. I have three that are my "go to" guns for serious social work.



Top left: Springfield Armory V10. Top right: Colt Series 80. Bottom: Kimber Compact stainless.

The latter two have tritium night sights. The Springfield is more of a daytime gun, given the massive flash from the ports in the barrel. All are tuned and totally reliable.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:48 PM
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It's been an interesting thread. I've rejected about 4 Para's. All kinds of issues that made them hit the road. I'm abit of a 1911 Junkie and have had some pretty good ones over the years. Early Wilsons to some of the modern wonder guns.

Here's the shame of it all. The very best on accuracy and most reliable 1911 format that I own is double stack Para that I bought used for just over $500. No other gun comes close. Like I said at the top of this thread...the dang thing would feed a rock if you asked it.....
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Old 06-24-2010, 06:05 PM
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Put me soundly in the category of "love" Para Ord. I have three single-stack LDA's- two 7.45s (one blue, one stainless) and a Carry 6.45. The stainless 7.45 LDA/SSP is my current duty weapon, and the 6.45 is my off-duty weapon. Never had any problems. Love the .45ACP round and 1911 platform, but prefer the LDA to cocked-and-locked. Also, mags are plentiful and inexpensive.
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Old 06-25-2010, 02:13 PM
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I had a P13.45 for a little while back around 1996. Very good fit. Nothing fancy. Shot well with ball ammo (that's all I ever used in it). It did stove pipe now and then. I asked the owner of the local indoor range (Big Bill) to take a look at it. He told me to lube the slide a little more until it was broken in. I did and it functioned fine after that. I traded it. One of the few I wish I had never traded.

There is an older gentleman that I shoot with now and then. He has an LDA that's about the size of a Colt Commander. He loves it and has never had a problem. He shoots it VERY well.
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Old 06-25-2010, 03:43 PM
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I have two LDAs. TacFour and Carry Companion. No complaints on either. Used the TacFour in a training class where I put over 500 rounds through it without a single FTF or FTE. In one exercise we interspersed dummy rounds and fired cases with live ammo to practice rapid clearing of jams. All of the empty cases fed properly. Also used the TacFour in IDPA shoots. Never had a problem with it.

The Carry Companion is one of my regular carry guns. Less ammo through it so I cannot claim long term performance. Again, no problems yet.

I like the Paras I own. I also know people who had problems with theirs.
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Old 06-25-2010, 05:46 PM
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I hated them until I shot one, the lda is a neat idea for 1911's. It was very smooth. I am looking for a used one now to add to the collection.
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:38 PM
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My 7.45LDA is one of my favorite guns . The only failure was with a Chip McCormick mag . Runs great with the factory mags .
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Old 06-25-2010, 10:09 PM
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.............now you're whining about a Para....what am I going to do with you? ( Y )
Okay, the easy fix on the magazines if all else fails involves a shovel and an out of the way seldom traveled area to bury them.
Good luck with it. I'm sure it'll see things your way soon, if not send it to me and I'll give it a good firm talking to.
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Old 06-26-2010, 04:16 AM
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Thanks for reminding me why I buy only S&W revolvers and CZ 75 based semi-autos. That said I do like the Springfield TRP my buddy has, but I just cannot get round the $1100+ for pistol thing.
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Old 06-26-2010, 10:11 AM
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Just waiting on breakfast, so here's my Para experience:

Traded into one of the original wide-frame 1911s.

Unimpressive after a series of minor glitches; annoyingly inaccurate; too big to fit my hand.

Did make a great 'trade-it-for-something-I-really-liked' platform.

None of their little package 45s fit my hand very well either. Don't like the balance or configuration of them.

Hard to understand my general dislike for them. I like their features & their ads.

Don't even look at them in the shops these days.
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Old 06-27-2010, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djohns6 View Post
My 7.45LDA is one of my favorite guns . The only failure was with a Chip McCormick mag . Runs great with the factory mags .
I'm kind of surprised about the Chip McCormick mags. I use them for both my duty and off-duty weapon, and have never had a problem. In fact, of all the mags I use, the Chip McCormicks are my 'front line' magazines. The one in the gun is a Para factory, and the ones I carry on my belt are Chip McCormicks.

Other than a few cheap, generic mags that were hard to load, the only magazine my 7.45 didn't like was a Colt factory mag- wouldn't lock the slide back after the last round.

But, I guess every gun is different, and every shooter is different... I've just had great luck with Chip McCormick mags and Para LDA postols!
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Old 05-08-2017, 05:02 PM
sniper007 sniper007 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKFC05 View Post
My TAC Five is the slickest, most reliable "2011" I have.

There are a few things you don't do with a Para-Ord:
.......3. Use generic parts. Some parts are unique to Para.
So true. I don't exactly own a Para, but I found a good deal on a Para Expert Commander slide and decided to build a commander. I've built several 1911s and this is the only one I had problems with.

I mated the slide to a standard spec commander frame and all went well until it came to the slide stop. The Para slide stop didn't work correctly because it wasn't a Para frame, and neither did a mil-spec slide stop. (They were very close, and would have functioned correctly, but could be pushed out of the frame without being aligned with the cutout in the slide: Yikes!)

Well after a bit of welding and filing on the slide stop, it's all good and the gun is a decent shooter, but I suggest that if you own a Para, do as OKFC05 suggests and stick to Para parts.

Last edited by sniper007; 05-08-2017 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 05-08-2017, 07:06 PM
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My 1st. 1911, was an Auto Ordnance. I bought it on a budget. It did not run well at all. So..... I changed a lot of parts, and it functioned quite well. Sold it and bought a Sig. Much better. My other 1911's had no issues. Bob
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Old 05-08-2017, 07:21 PM
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steamloco76 steamloco76 is offline
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I scratched my itch for a long slide 1911 with a Para Super Hawg 6 inch. The previous owner said he only fired a Mag or two through the pistol. I believe that because all four factory 8 round Mags wouldn't feed if fully loaded. Two worked with 7 rounds, two wouldn't feed anything. Any other Mags I have worked 100%.

Sold the pistol because it wasn't any more accurate or easy to shoot than my 5 inch 1911's. Cool looking pistol, but not really worth the money IMHO.

PS, I still have the junk Para mags, just in case I need to make a 1911 non-functional.
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:10 PM
JohnRippert JohnRippert is offline
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The only reason I can think of to own one is to have a double-stack 1911, and I have no interest whatsoever in a double-stack 1911.
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Old 05-08-2017, 11:46 PM
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ZOMBIE THREAD!

Paras are noted for needing an extended break-in time. Many need 500 rounds or more before they settle down and run right.
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Old 05-09-2017, 12:19 AM
1-1917 1-1917 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizamo View Post
Or Para/USA....

I They are absolutely the Worse of the 1911's...bar none.

$%@XXX@
I have a Parker 45, your statement should read "bar ONE", the Parker. LOL, I'm certain the Wyoming Arms Parker 45 is the worst designed 1911ish gun made. They sold the parts and tooling to "Laseraim" when Wyoming Arms went out of business. The Parker/Laseraim has to be "the worse.. bar NONE!". Read some of the reviews, those Para reviews will start to sound pretty good.


Sorry, didn't realize someone drug this back to life from 7 years ago... )-:}
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Last edited by 1-1917; 05-09-2017 at 12:22 AM.
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  #38  
Old 05-14-2017, 01:44 PM
SuperMan SuperMan is offline
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Bought a Elite LS Hunter 6" 10mm...could not be happier... Very accurate, feeds everything...nice finish and very tight...
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1911, 4506, 45acp, bull barrel, bullseye, ccw, cocobolo, colt, commander, concealed, idpa, kimber, lock, military, milspec, nra, ppc, sig arms, springfield, tritium

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