I have a question for those who are more knowledgeable on the subject of knives. For outdoor use, as in a woods knife, what kind of steel do you recommend? Also, what are your opinions / experiences with epoxy coated blades?

__________________
- The Federalist #46 -

How far out in the woods do you plan to go? (Like hiking in the mountains, or such)

My suggestions are this and not in any particular order:
1. USMC KaBar
2. Becker Brute
3. 12" Carbon Steel Ontario Machete (late manufactor)

__________________
The Last Standing Knight

It's actually for my brother who is looking for one. He'd be using it pretty much for bumming around our woods for a few hours at a time. I think he is considering a KaBar, but I don't have any experience with epoxy coatings that some have.

__________________
- The Federalist #46 -

A Kabar is a pretty big knife. For day trips just hiking around, I think a 3" to 4" blade would cover most necessities, unless he needs a machete to hack through brush. My daily carry is a Kershaw Leek folder, and it would do me fine for day trips.

__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Depends on his definition of bumming around.
If that involves cutting up to medium size pieces of wood for a fire or being able to pry someting if necessary, for example, I've been completely satisfied by BK'S 7 and 9 from Becker Knife and Tool.

I don't have any experience yet w/ the Brute but I'm sure it's great as well.

Going by the choices of the first reply, The last standing knight and I have very similar taste in working blades.

For overall versatility, I personally believe that between your everyday carry knife and a newer vintage Ontario G.I. machete, you'd be pretty well covered short of having to chop down a tree. A little bulky because of the length but well worth it should a need arise. I only wish the sheath had a way to wear it on a civilian belt instead of just the hooks for a web belt.

I also appreciate epoxy coatings (or enamel in the case of Beckers IIRC) because being made of carbon steel, the same principles apply as with guns. The finishes are a barrier between the steel and dirt and/or moisture. If you know to take care of a blued gun, you know how to take care of a carbon steel knife.

I've been a fan of the basic Ka-bar for a field knife since I was Boy Scout back in 1960's. However, a couple years ago my son said what he wanted for Christmas was a Ka-Bar like mine except with a Tanto style point. After handling his knife I picked up one for myself except with the 5" blade.

I consider it a great belt knife though in all honestt in the field I use my all stainless Swiss Army knife for most tasks.

Swedish Mora - cheap, easy to sharpen, strikes a good spark, not too big and bulky . Get the carbon steel ones mind you. They'll rust if you don't wipe them off, but eh...

Second choice is a Buck 110 or 119. The first a classic folder, the second a classic fixed blade. Either is available from just about any Walmart or gunshop in America. Still US made, still simple, though a 119 can benefit from having the handle wrapped with friction tape.

Failing either of those, just carry a Leatherman tool. One with a saw and scissors on it. Not as useful for batoning down trees as a fixed blade mind you, but plenty useful. You can cut your nails with the scissors, yank out your nose hairs with the pliers (sterilize them with your zippo first), gut and clean game, and do all sorts of other things with one without having the hassle of the size, weight, and potential legal issues of a full sized belt knife.

cold steel makes fine products in any shape or size. check out some of their demonstration vids. they are pretty fun to watch.

Benchmade AFO II. If it's good enough for our soldiers, it's good enough for me!

You specifically asked about coated blades. It wears off, and the blade looks awful.

As for knives, I think either the Buck Model 105 or the Fallkniven S-1 Forest Knife would be fine for what you described. The five-inch blades are about right for most camp use, and more likely to be legal than longer knives.
But if preference and the law allow longer ones, that Buck No. 119 already mentioned is good. For the money, it is certainly my preference in an all-round outdoor/survival knife, and it won't rust, with even modest care.

If one has the experience to sharpen tough VG-10 steel and the money, the Fallkniven S-1 would easily be my choice, unless I needed a larger knife as a weapon or to make a shelter. Then, I'd step up to the A-1 in their line.

These have Thermorun handles, impervious to about everything but a scowl from your mother-in-law, and they are tested by both the US and Swedish military,and by the Technical University of Lulea, Sweden. They have passed grueling breakage and durability tests, and are used by the Swedish Air Force as the pilot survival knife, and are popular with Norwegian Marines, even in Afghanistan. The F-1 and S-1 are approved for unit purchase by US Naval and Marine air units, with the optional black blade. (A-1 also passed the trials, but is too large for the sheath in the survival vest.)
www.fallkniven.com (This is a beautiful site. And the knives mentioned have counterparts with leather handles, for more money.)

If you find a good older Puma Hunter's Pal, Outdoor, or Model 3589 at a show at a fair price, buy it. But collectors have driven up the price on Pumas made before the mid-1990's, when quality dropped. Also, be sure that the stag handle scales fit your hand well. Some are too thick.

The Randall Model 5 with optional stainless blade is a fine choice. I'd buy it with Micarta handle and nickle silver guard and drilled for a wrist thong. Their Model 14 is a heavy-duty survival knife. Good, but probably more than needed by your brother. It's long been a favorite with Army Special Forces men. The Model 7 with five-inch blade is probably what he needs, or the Model 5. www.randallknives.com If you don't like a Randall, you can usually sell it easily, often for a considerable profit.

The SOG SEAL 2000 also passed arduous Navy tests. I like that in a wilderness knife. However, SOG has changed the design, and I don't know anything about the new version. Muela of Spain makes a similar knife to the SEAL 2000, but you may have to have a dealer order it. I don't know how it stands up, but mine looks very good and is quite well made.
You might add a Martindale or Ontario or other good machete. I've read that the Condor brand from Central America is good, too. Or, use a small axe. My hatchets from Buck and from Gerber have served well for things that a knife really shouldn't be asked to do.

Avoid chopping where a miss might cause the knife to strike a rock. Might chip the blade. Don't try to chop bone, either.

A good pocketknife handles the small work for which a belt knife is uncomfortably large. I think a basic Swiss Army knife is best, the former Official (Soldier) model being as good as any, or the Victorinox Spartan or Tinker. Boy Scout knives are heavier, and the can opener is less refined. They lack a tweezer and toothpick in the handle. The Scout ones are stronger, but you'll never know that, if you treat the knife right.

Let us know what's chosen,and how he likes it.

T-Star

I broke the tip off my favorite Kershaw a while back doing something foolish. Sent the knife back and requested an estimate for repair because I couldn't find that exact model around here anymore. They just sent back a new one, no questions asked. They are made in the US and customer service is outstanding.

What Texas Star said, excellent advice.
I would also suggest your bil look at Knives of Alaska in D2 steel, they are made in the same state Texas Star is located.

__________________
"Life is short, hunt hard"

For heavy field use I like carbon steel blades, they are easier to keep sharp. Carbon steel's only drawback is it will rust if you fail to properly maintain it. Buy I'm a knife knut who obsesses over keeping his knives sharp and oiled. It comes from 20 years in a professional kitchen.

+1 on the USMC Ka-Bar. It's a very rugged knife that can be used for chopping, digging, or even cutting. The USMC Ka-Bar was my go-to blade while in the Corps. They are not rare nor very expensive and easy to keep sharp and replace. The coating on the Ka-bar eventually wears and looks like ****, but it's a tool not an art knife. My secondary blade was a Gerber Mk II, more of a stabbing tool than a cutting tool..

Another of my favorite field knives is a Green River trade knife, they are lighter than the Ka-Bar so not so good for digging or chopping but they are simple, inexpensive, and easy to keep razor sharp. I find the thin blade of Green River blades excel at food prep, from dicing onions to butchering game.

Edit:
And of course I am never without a Swiss Army Knife, cheap, rugged, and very handy. I have two of them on me at any given time.

__________________
Regards,
Guy-Harold Smith II

A wide variety of responses is a given with this type of thing based on a person's experience and personal preferences. However, if you look at the knife as just a tool for a given job a lot changes. For example camping 30 or 40 years ago, when we were a boy scouts, was a lot different than camping today. You really don't need to chop that much wood to fire up a two burner propane stove. And this isn't combat so he doesn't need a combat knife. The guy won't be going on any UDT missions while at camp. I think you can forget survival too since today it only means holding on until the truck gets back from the stop-and-rob with more ice. A knife that was just the ticket in another place at another time probably wouldn't be the best choice for today.

Here's what four of the best pick as the knife for the job today. All these makers are very experienced outdoorsmen/campers/hunters and they know knives. None of these guys worked with or talked to any of the others yet they all arrived at the same place in the end. First is the new Randall 28 Woodsman. It's Gary Randall's favorite and a beauty. Second is a Loveless drop point, the most imitated knife around today. Loveless says there's nothing you should be doing around camp with a knife that this knife won't handle and no animal in North America you can't skin with it. Third is from Arizona maker Randy Lee who probably spends more time in the wild than any other one man in the state. The fourth is from South African transplant Chris Reeve proving you can even select a folder and still have the right knife for the job.



You can get a knife like one of these from any good quality maker today at all kinds of different price points. It just depends on your budget and tastes. If you stick with good makers you don't need to worry about the type steel and all that other stuff. They take care of that for you. All the good makers, be it custom or production, define the job they want the knife to do and then select a steel that helps them get there.

Bob

I've got a Buck 124 with a big, fat 7" blade and I bet its only been used a couple of times in the last 30 years. Its just so big and heavy, and a 3-1/2- 4" blade is much more practical, and if you want more, you could also carry a multi-tool or maybe a Glock entrenching tool.

Some low-life stole my Erik Frost - Mora, Sweden knife! Been scouting gun shows looking for another. More often than not I carry a Buck 110. I have to admit, though, I also have a Leatherman and at first laughhed at the saw blade, but I've used it more times than I'd care to admit!

a question like this will get you as many answers as there are respondants so i will not give an opine on what knife, but because i think it is jermain to the issue i will say keep in mind that a big knife will do anything a small knife will do but a small knife will not do what a big knife can do. good luck in your search.

Interesting it took as long as it did for someone to mention Randall.

Its fun to sit in restaurants and look a the gear some "hunters" or "Outdoorsmen" carry. Almost all carry knives way too big for the job at hand. My feeling is that for small game hunting, small big game (like bambi) or just knocking around, smaller is better. Big identifies the person as a Rambo wannabee. Huge makes no one take them seriously.

Things like the Kabar are great combat knives. They were designed for and used very successfully for that purpose. If you're going to the woods for combat, its an excellent choice. But blade shape for the kinds of things most of us do is just wrong.

I'd suggest you research the state laws where you live. No reason to run afoul of that. If the user is prone to (read ever) has lost a knife out in the woods, to super cheap.

__________________
Dick Burg

I've carried a pocket knife for years. Something like a Case stockman. It works on rabbits to deer. I do carry a belt knife in deer-elk season. For 20 years it was a custom made drop point in D2 steel. I retired it from woods carry and bought several Cold Steel knives. I am impressed with the quality-value.

What do the jermains got to do with the question.........?

__________________
Go big or stay home

I have a modest knife collection that is made up of old fashion folding pocket knives, and sheath knives. Most of them are made of carbon steel, not stainless. Even though I have more than a few sheath knives, I must admit I bought them mainly because I liked them, not for any specific purpose. As far as usefulness is concerned, there is nothing better than a 4 1/4" (closed size) carbon steel bladed pocket knife with a small and large blade. It is easy to carry (pocket), I ALWAYS have it with me, it is razor sharp, and will handle just about any job I have encountered over the past 40 years.

There have been times when I was hunting that I did carry a sheath knife on my belt, but to be honest, I can not remember ever using it. When the need arises for a knife, I will always pull out my pocket knife first. I find that sheath knives are usually too large and cumbersome for most jobs, and they are rarely as sharp an agile as a smaller blade is. I have some beauties that look great on my belt, but no where as useful as a nice pocket knife is.

The only thing I can say no matter which knife style or brand you choose, make sure you get a CARBON steel bladed knife, NOT stainless. Stainless is harder to sharpen and does not hold an edge like carbon steel does. I realize that most of the company's today make their blades out of stainless, but if you are persistent you can find carbon steel. Carbon steel WILL discolor, (so just be aware of that) but if you are really going to us it, the carbon steel knife will serve you better in the long run.

chief38

Ditto. Unless I'm naked, there's a SAK in my pocket. Over the years I've owned a boatload of sheath knives, and I've gotten rid of almost all of them.

There are many things a SAK will do that a large knife can't. A SAK *won't* serve as an axe or a shovel, but I keep a hatchet and e-tool in my truck.

I carry two to three knives on me at all times, feel naked with less than two. BUT...

One is a Leatherman Micra that replaces the dinky (my opinion) little Swiss Army Knives. It just disappears. And I like the scissors, more useful than I thought, and probably the most-used tool on the knife.

The second varies with my mood, but is currently a very inexpensive Boker Magnum I picked up for about $20. This is the "sacrificial" knife that I abuse cutting open boxes and other junk you shouldn't do with a knife. I don't like using boxcutters, badly injured my hand with one in an industrial accident many years ago, so I use a knife instead. This knife is about the size and shape of the beautiful Chris Reeve knife pictured above. The Boker Magnum series are NOT made in Germany, but I'm very impressed with this one.

The third knife I have on me is a Case Medium Stockman. It was a gift from my daughter, so it has huge sentimental value. It is perfect for peeling apples, and just fiddling with. I have a "nervous twitch" when I sit still too long, and twiddling an unopened knife in my hand cures it!

Instead of a "knife" I'd suggest a Leatherman tool. The early tools had pretty much useless blades, but newer models I've handled have improved the steel and grind considerably. However, I don't use mine as a knife anyway.

Texas Star and bk43 have given great advice and my prized knife, other than the Stockman, is a Harold Corby model that is extremely similar to the Loveless style bk showed.

But for "woods-bumming," which I do a fair amount of, I stick with the same two or three knives I carry all day anyway. If I were to spend a couple days at a time, I'd add an entrenching tool (shovel), probably Glock's model, before adding a huge knife. If I had to have a sheath knife, maybe either the Ka-bar or Glock models. Boker and others have designs that will work, and I really want a Boker Savanna, but I'm be danged if I'll spend $400 and up on a knife to abuse in the woods. The Ka-Bar and Glocks are less than $50 if you look around, and they will do the job.

__________________
I hope I copied that right

I forgot to add, I use Cold Steel knives professionally in my kitchen. The steel, grind, and heat treat is surprisingly good, and very reasonably priced. However, some of Mr. Thompson's products look a little too Rambo-ish, and are a little too much on the Fantasy-knife side for my aesthetic taste. They do seem to work well though.

__________________
I hope I copied that right

One of the large Case trappers or stockmans, so long as it has the chrome-vanadium steel in it. No tell'n how many woodsmen around here carried and still carry those, or similar knives. They aren't fancy, but certainly get the job done.

Every squirrel I've ever killed I've cleaned with my stockman, whittled a bit too, but I'm not good at it.


The size of the knife has everything to do with it...if it's too big to be an every day carry, go to something smaller. Very few people I know carry a full size hunting knife into the woods, but on the other hand it needs to be big enough to do the job. If you want to actually cut some timber for a lean to or kindling, get a nice Marble's Safety Hatchet and leave the cutting to the knife.

A knife for hunting, camping, and or "survival" use is likely three different knives. No one will fit the bill. Break out your pocketbook!

However, if you need one of those Sylvester Stalone survival knives, by all means buy one!

__________________
Lost it all in a boat accident

I hope bk43 doesn't mind me using his picture, but the only knife here I'd even think about using for an "all around general purpose" knife is the Randall on top. Not because of the brand as I've seen many popular brands that weren't worth a fraction of what they were selling for, but rather because of the large tang. There is nothing worse than being in the woods using a knife and having your hand slip over the dirty blade.

Just this mall ninjas opinion.

I appreciate all the input. I'm sending my brother a link the this thread so he can read for himself.

Thanks again!

__________________
- The Federalist #46 -

The tangs that you can see, on the middle two knives, are not really that large. They are tapered but my limited photo skills don't show that well. I also don't show the serrations and file work on top of the blades for the thumb. These knives are almost always gripped with the thumb on the blade and often with the index finger on the blade too. Your hand isn't going to slip forward because that's were it is already. The thumb on the blade gives one control and leverage, the best of both worlds.

Bob

For general field use I carry a Camillus Pilot Survival Knife that I found in a truck stop parking lot. They have a carbon steel blade that's easy to put a nice edge on, a stacked leather grip and a large hex shaped pommel. The Pilot survival knife is also small enough to carry comfortably yet hefty enough to use as a chopping tool. Compared to the big name brands the price is pretty reasonable too...

Attached Images

psk.jpg (52.6 KB, 26 views)

__________________
"Shall not be infringed"

They appear to be purpose designed for more intricate work, like skinning game. I have a pile of mission specific knives such as throwing, combat, skinning, looks good on your belt, and etc. Some of them will work for general purpose/ utility work to some degree or other, some aren't suited for the purpose at all. A good utility knife, such as Black_Sheeps, will handle a wide variety of jobs to some degree, although not always as good as a knife that was made for one particular job. If I were going to choose one knife for everything, it would be a utility knife, with a large tang, just in case I had to build a campsite with it, or tie it to a stick for use as a spear, or etc.

Well, I mentioned Puma, and that's a "jermain" company...
Is this germane to the issue?

The creative spelling that I see on gun boards just astounds me. I know a Czech, an Austrian, and a Norwegian, all of whom spell better and use better grammar in English than most Americans and Canadians do today. Not to mention three South Africans whose first language is based on Dutch. (Afrikaans.) Kidding aside, this worries me.

Back to knives. Besides not chopping bone with them or letting the edge hit a rock with any force behind it, don't throw one not especially made for that, or use the tip as a screwdriver. You may not damage the knife, but who wants to find out the hard way that you did?

Buck used to run ads that showed them cutting though a bolt. What they didn't mention is that the edge was ground to the right bevel to endure that, and the blade had to be tapped very carefully through the metal bolt, which had to be the sort that isn't heat-treated, or so I've read. But it was a great ad, if a little misleading. It helped to sell me on buying my first Buck.

Y'all realize of course that most of the people in the world who actually rely on a "survival" knife consider a machete to be their "survival" knife. ;-)
In some variation or another.

The only knife tip I ever broke was from throwing it. The sad part was that it was a throwing knife, made to look like a good quality Rot Punkt.