1903 Springfield - Bolt/Extractor

[JamesWP]

Some of you may remember my post asking about the value of a Remington 700 last week and I mentioned I may swap it for a sporterized Springfield. Well, I still may sell the 700 but I just bought the Springfield outright. Seems to be a very nicely done sporter job. But I’m new to controles feed rifles and I do have a question…
The rifle functions just fine with dummy rounds, but with the bolt removed the extractor won’t hold a round onto the bolt if it is turned with the extractor on the bottom of the bolt. Is that normal and correct? I’ve read that on a Mauser the extractor will hold a round on the bolt when it’s out of the rifle no matter what position one holds it in?

Thanks for the input. I know this is a random question but I’m learning a lot….

[Alk8944]

That is completely normal for any Mauser type rifles.

[Pig Hunter]

The ')3 doesn't exactly have a controlled round feed. There was a mag cutoff on the right side so those pesky soldiers wouldn't "waste" ammo. You were supposed to use the cutoff and single load rounds until things got hot and you needed the other 5 rounds.

[JamesWP]

Thanks for the input guys. Sounds like all is well.
My next question….Compared to the Remington 700, the Springfield seems to have a more loose feel to it. The 700 is very tight and crisp. Is this a characteristic of the Springfields in general? Possibly due to greater clearances/looser tolerances so it would still function well when dirty or in a combat environment?

[erikpolcrack]

The Springfield action has nearly perfect controlled-round feed. Once the bolt has pushed the cartridge forward just a tad, it pops up far enough for the rim to slip into the extractor's grasp. The rail of the magazine still partially holds and guides it as it first moves forward. When it's far enough forward to be free of the rail, its point will already be well into the action ring/barrel breech area where it will be easily guided into the chamber. The Springfield breech end of the barrel is milled out in a concave manner to make the cartridge tip's smooth entry into the chamber even more assured. If at any point prior to closing the bolt the operator pulls back on the bolt, the cartridge, still controlled by the extractor, will come back out and can be ejected. If bolt direction is reversed before ejection, that original cartridge will be still ready for chambering, and the next cartridge will still be in the magazine, controlled by the magazine rail. This helps prevent double-feed jams, something a nervous, unsure soldier might fall victim to in combat.

[2152hq]

The '03 is made so the extractor can flex and the bolt can be closed on a single round dropped into the chamber. This without damaging the extractor at all.
This was needed due to the Magazine Cut-Off system built into the rifle.

The Mauser 98 extractor was not designed to do this as there is no Cut-off on the design.
If you force it, the bolt can be closed on a round in the chamber but it puts a lot of un-needed stress on the extractor claw as it is not designed of it.
It is possible to reshape the front edge of the claw for it too close easier on a loaded rd. But the flexing action of the body of the extractor is still more than the overall design is made for.

As far as the controlled feed,,That is the round being pushed out of the magazine by the bolt and forward to be chambered.
The bottom portion of the bolt face is open,,no encirclement of steel as in a Rem700.
It is open so the cartridge head can slip up onto the bolt face as it rises from the magazine. At the same time the case head extractor groove slides behind the bolt's extractor claw.

Should the round be 'short stroked',,it will still be extracted and ejected from the rifle as the extractor claw has a hold of the case .

On a Push feed system, the round out of the magazine is mearly pushed forward by the bolt face towards the chamber and into it. Never having a purchase/hold of the round. That occurs only when the round is fully chambered and the bolt fully closed. Then and only then does the small spring clip extractor snap over the case head extractor groove.

When fitted up, a controlled feed bolt should have the extractor claw just barely touch and hold the case while on the bolt face.
That's the gunsmith's way of fitting up a good rifle. I'd expect most new Military rifles of decent mfg had come down the line the same way.
But with 80 to 100+ yrs of use and wear in sometimes horrible conditions, that narrow edge of the claw extractor gets worn. Sometimes severely. But it can still do it's job.

Also ammunition specs can be all over the place esp the depth of the extractor groove on the case. A couple .000 too deep and case will seem to be a loose fit under the extractor. But again the system will work just fine.

Placing a round onto the bolt face and rotating the bolt assembly to put the extractor claw at 6 o/clock will often let the round fall free of the bolt .
That can be due to any of the above. Plus the simple geometry of the case being unsupported on the boltface and the 6 o'clock extractor position is now nothing but a pivot point for the round to tumble from.

Springfield and Mauser bolts feel 'loose' in their actions,,some way worse than others due to wear. Some are just sloppy fit due to 'gunsmithing' over the yrs in trys to make a better sporter.
A first rate Oberndorf Sporter is a very smooth working action as is a Nat'l MAtch 1903.

The design of the Rem700 adds to it's smooth working bolt.
No added 3rd Safety Lug or Bolt Guide Rib on the bolt body keeps it just a plain cylindrical body.
No Stripper Clip guide cut-outs on the rear bridge.
No Ejector /Bolt Stop cut on the left side of the recv'r at the rear

The 2 opposed locking lugs are the only slots needed in the action for the bolt passage.
Plus the rear recv'r bridge is a bit longer than most of the Mauser/Springfield actions, That aids in supporting the bolt for smooth operation when fully retracted.

[JamesWP]

Thank you very much 2152! That perfectly answered all my questions and was an interesting read!

[Trooper224]

Congrats on the sporter, I'm into the '03.

Just shoot it and avoid imagining manufacturing problems that aren't there. You can't fairly compare the tolerances of a rifle that's around a century old to a modern one.

I'm always on the lookout for a nice sporterized '03. Many collectors get apoplectic over them. But, I think a nicely sporterized '03 is a thing of beauty.

[JamesWP]

Thanks Trooper! I haven’t shot mine yet but I sure do like it! Sporterized military rifles may be my new obsession lol
Next up will be an Eddystone I think.

[Trooper224]

Originally Posted by JamesWP

Thanks Trooper! I haven’t shot mine yet but I sure do like it! Sporterized military rifles may be my new obsession lol
Next up will be an Eddystone I think.

I picked up a nice M1917 Eddystone about two years ago. If you want one don't wait too long. I put that off for years and paid the price, literally. 😀 they aren't getting any cheaper.