Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > General Topics > Firearms & Knives: Other Brands & General Gun Topics
o

Notices

Firearms & Knives: Other Brands & General Gun Topics Post Your General Gun Topics and Non-S&W Gun and Blade Topics Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-10-2010, 11:11 PM
CAJUNLAWYER's Avatar
CAJUNLAWYER CAJUNLAWYER is offline
Member
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: On da Bayou Teche
Posts: 18,410
Likes: 18,442
Liked 58,604 Times in 9,624 Posts
Default Single Action Question

I've been drooling over on the web page of USFA but I have a question.
What is a black powder frame vs a cross pin frame? would someone please explain hopefully with pictures. Also is a v notch or square notch better on these guns?
__________________
Forum consigliere
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-10-2010, 11:34 PM
cp1969's Avatar
cp1969 cp1969 is offline
Member
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,366
Likes: 279
Liked 63 Times in 42 Posts
Default

Black powder frame has a screw to retain the cylinder pin and that screw comes in from the front of the frame, angled up slightly to intersect the cylinder pin. The cross pin frame has a spring-loaded pin, perpendicular to the cylinder pin and fits in a notch cut in the cylinder pin, blocking it from moving forward.

Can't answer on the v-notch vs. square notch question. Only ones I've shot had the V, IIRC.

Last edited by cp1969; 12-11-2010 at 12:23 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-10-2010, 11:45 PM
ladder13 ladder13 is offline
Member
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 30,692
Likes: 57,557
Liked 52,819 Times in 16,468 Posts
Default

Plain Jane USFA, in 44 sp, Caj

__________________
Sure you did
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-10-2010, 11:48 PM
cp1969's Avatar
cp1969 cp1969 is offline
Member
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,366
Likes: 279
Liked 63 Times in 42 Posts
Default

His picture is of a cross-pin frame.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-10-2010, 11:55 PM
Wyo's Avatar
Wyo Wyo is offline
Member
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 2,162
Likes: 1,166
Liked 5,840 Times in 1,240 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAJUNLAWYER View Post
Also is a v notch or square notch better on these guns?
For authenticity go with the V notch. For shooting go with the square notch. I have a pair of the USFA single actions with the square notches and they're much easier to shoot accurately than any of the old V notch Colts I've owned. The USFA revolvers are, by the way, wonderful guns.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-11-2010, 12:17 AM
CAJUNLAWYER's Avatar
CAJUNLAWYER CAJUNLAWYER is offline
Member
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: On da Bayou Teche
Posts: 18,410
Likes: 18,442
Liked 58,604 Times in 9,624 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladder13 View Post
Plain Jane USFA, in 44 sp, Caj

I think I'm gonna go with one of those in .45 with an extra cylinder in .45ACP
__________________
Forum consigliere
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-11-2010, 12:29 AM
ladder13 ladder13 is offline
Member
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 30,692
Likes: 57,557
Liked 52,819 Times in 16,468 Posts
Default

Can't go wrong with that Caj, and the price is pretty fair. You'll be amazed at the fit and finish of these revolvers.
What barrel length are you planning on?
__________________
Sure you did
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-11-2010, 12:37 AM
jframe's Avatar
jframe jframe is offline
Member
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Florence, Alabama
Posts: 2,067
Likes: 1,887
Liked 1,137 Times in 304 Posts
Default

I wish that this thread had never started, especially with pictures. I need one of these like a root canal, and really don't have a practical use for such a firearm at all, but every now and then, I get the fever BAD! I think this is one of those times.
__________________
MARK
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-11-2010, 01:21 AM
Texas1941 Texas1941 is offline
Member
Single Action Question  
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Texas Gulf Coast
Posts: 378
Likes: 6
Liked 36 Times in 24 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jframe View Post
I wish that this thread had never started, especially with pictures. I need one of these like a root canal, and really don't have a practical use for such a firearm at all, but every now and then, I get the fever BAD! I think this is one of those times.
There is a lot of that going around...I don't even LIKE SAAs or clones there of. You have to do that knit-one-pearl two thing to load them. From what I see on the ranges, they do require more intensive up keep than I'm used to. The design was old when the N frame was young.

But Good Grief, look at the pictures! And every USFA revolver I've actually seen looked just like the pictures. They were beautiful and their timing was perfect.

I keep thinking...5.5" bbl, 45ACP, lanyard loop, "Smokless" frame, maybe some really cool grips (stocks?) with the Federal Eagle on one side and the Aztec Eagle on the other. When I was a kid, I saw that motif a lot, especially in South Texas.

I figure that would just about kill a $1500 bill, but that revolver would turn heads at the range.

Charles

Last edited by Texas1941; 12-11-2010 at 01:22 AM. Reason: sp
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-11-2010, 01:35 AM
Wheelgunner840's Avatar
Wheelgunner840 Wheelgunner840 is offline
Member
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Upper right corner! USA
Posts: 2,287
Likes: 10
Liked 30 Times in 20 Posts
Default

Black powder frames. Very high "cool" factor!




WG840
__________________
Freedom above all else.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-11-2010, 08:09 AM
Andy Griffith's Avatar
Andy Griffith Andy Griffith is offline
Member
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Out for the duration
Posts: 4,870
Likes: 62
Liked 520 Times in 264 Posts
Default

Has anyone handled one of their Omni-potent six shooters yet? I know I asked that awhile back, and I've been looking for three years now, and have never handled one not been able to find one in the flesh. If I could just handle it, I just might get one. There just aren't many of them in circulation.
__________________
Lost it all in a boat accident
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-11-2010, 09:27 AM
Bullet Bob's Avatar
Bullet Bob Bullet Bob is online now
US Veteran
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Western NC
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 2,948
Liked 6,544 Times in 1,821 Posts
Default

You can also get a new production Colt with the black powder frame, and bullseye ejector rod:





Then get a palomino, a german shepherd, throw in a sidekick, and you're ready to ride!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-11-2010, 11:26 AM
CAJUNLAWYER's Avatar
CAJUNLAWYER CAJUNLAWYER is offline
Member
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: On da Bayou Teche
Posts: 18,410
Likes: 18,442
Liked 58,604 Times in 9,624 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ladder13 View Post
Can't go wrong with that Caj, and the price is pretty fair. You'll be amazed at the fit and finish of these revolvers.
What barrel length are you planning on?
I'm thinking about a 4 3/4 and getting a Threepersons with loop from El Paso to put it in.
__________________
Forum consigliere
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-11-2010, 11:28 AM
35Rem's Avatar
35Rem 35Rem is offline
Member
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: SE Alabama, near Dothan
Posts: 1,880
Likes: 772
Liked 791 Times in 365 Posts
Default

go with the cross pin. It's a pain to have to use a screwdriver to remove the cylider. AND you better have a fitted screwdriver for it. You use the wrong one it'll mess up the screw slot and probably slip out at least once and scratch the gun. Bad Ju Ju.

The Ruger single actions have the cross pin.
__________________
War Eagle! '10 BCS & '13 SEC
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-11-2010, 11:28 AM
35Rem's Avatar
35Rem 35Rem is offline
Member
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: SE Alabama, near Dothan
Posts: 1,880
Likes: 772
Liked 791 Times in 365 Posts
Default

I personally think the 5 1/2" balances best...
__________________
War Eagle! '10 BCS & '13 SEC
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-11-2010, 11:52 AM
ladder13 ladder13 is offline
Member
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 30,692
Likes: 57,557
Liked 52,819 Times in 16,468 Posts
Default

Here's my Colt, in 45, for comparison. In my opinion, the USFA gives up nothing to the Colt.

__________________
Sure you did
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-11-2010, 11:55 AM
ladder13 ladder13 is offline
Member
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NC
Posts: 30,692
Likes: 57,557
Liked 52,819 Times in 16,468 Posts
Default

The ultimate SA, there is no better made gun period, imo. Only comes in stainless though. Freedom Arms:

__________________
Sure you did
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-11-2010, 12:30 PM
Wheelgunner840's Avatar
Wheelgunner840 Wheelgunner840 is offline
Member
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Upper right corner! USA
Posts: 2,287
Likes: 10
Liked 30 Times in 20 Posts
Default

Quote:
35Rem;go with the cross pin. It's a pain to have to use a screwdriver to remove the cylider. AND you better have a fitted screwdriver for it. You use the wrong one it'll mess up the screw slot and probably slip out at least once and scratch the gun. Bad Ju Ju.

The Ruger single actions have the cross pin.
You can replace them, or order the guns with the thumb screw type that I have pictured on mine. Never a problem, and for my taste, very period correct. The "bullseye" ejector rod also adds to the overall "cool"


I am one of those folks who wanted my six-shooters to be as period correct as I could afford to get them. 44-40 of course!

If you don't really care about that, there are all the Rugers with their transfer bar systems (very well made guns) and a whole host of others that can cost you a bunch. If I had the extra cash, I wouldn't hesitate to by a USFA though.


WG840
__________________
Freedom above all else.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-11-2010, 01:59 PM
gregintenn gregintenn is offline
Member
Single Action Question  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lafayette, Tennessee
Posts: 6,926
Likes: 6,833
Liked 8,936 Times in 2,910 Posts
Default

I like the ones with the little pony on them.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-11-2010, 02:16 PM
feralmerril feralmerril is offline
Absent Comrade
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: utah
Posts: 13,063
Likes: 2,547
Liked 7,201 Times in 3,064 Posts
Default

I have 4 various colt single actions and a few clones. Sometimes, maybe most the time, that cross latch clyinder pin is hard to pull out. With the BP frame type with a screw, yes, you need a screwdriver but then the pin comes out easier. Why not get the BP frame and a few extra screws in case you bugger them up?
Frankly, I dont know how many times I have used a pliers with cloth or leather to have to pull out a sticky pin. Somewhere just lately somone posted a tool you can buy from brownells to pull a sticky pin.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-11-2010, 02:25 PM
feralmerril feralmerril is offline
Absent Comrade
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: utah
Posts: 13,063
Likes: 2,547
Liked 7,201 Times in 3,064 Posts
Default

Did I mention I like single actions?













Last edited by feralmerril; 12-11-2010 at 02:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-11-2010, 09:46 PM
Alpo's Avatar
Alpo Alpo is offline
Member
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: N/W Florida
Posts: 5,657
Likes: 2,432
Liked 6,205 Times in 2,421 Posts
Default

This is the other thing wrong with the "blackpowder frame", aside from that lousy screw.

Pinched sight channel. The V notch isn't bad enough, but it's narrowed. Almost impossible to get a decent sight-picture with that setup.

__________________
I always take precautions
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-12-2010, 12:13 AM
Bat Guano Bat Guano is offline
Member
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 3,260
Likes: 1,224
Liked 2,526 Times in 1,043 Posts
Default

My wife decided she needed a nice SA, and got a USFA .45 Colt, nickel, 5 1/2" a couple of years ago. It is probably the best quality gun I have seen in years, just beautiful. For authenticity, it doesn't give up a thing to an 1882 1st gen. Colt I have. I had a 3rd gen. Colt some years back that wasn't as good.

Oddly enough I'm quite content with a NV Ruger in stainless and a few more of Col. Ruger's equalizers. But If I was in the market I'd spring for a USFA.

Heck, I might still do it.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-12-2010, 12:52 AM
jag312's Avatar
jag312 jag312 is offline
Member
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Minden, Nevada
Posts: 3,627
Likes: 2,014
Liked 5,295 Times in 1,736 Posts
Default



I admit that I am biased, but I think that a USFA single action revolver is the best. Photobucket was acting a little funny, so I hope this picture is good.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-12-2010, 01:00 AM
Wyatt Burp Wyatt Burp is offline
Member
Single Action Question  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Northern California
Posts: 6,655
Likes: 3,299
Liked 17,158 Times in 2,907 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpo View Post
This is the other thing wrong with the "blackpowder frame", aside from that lousy screw.

Pinched sight channel. The V notch isn't bad enough, but it's narrowed. Almost impossible to get a decent sight-picture with that setup.

Any Colt SAA anyone buys won't have this pinched frame, unless you get one of the few very first Colts that has this feature. But you wouldn't shoot that anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-12-2010, 01:01 AM
jag312's Avatar
jag312 jag312 is offline
Member
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Minden, Nevada
Posts: 3,627
Likes: 2,014
Liked 5,295 Times in 1,736 Posts
Default

Okay! I got the picture of my USFA SA revolver. Maybe I'm not a complete idiot when it comes to computers. 4 3/4 inch barrel. .44 Special, and Paul Persinger ivory grips. I think it is a work of art.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-12-2010, 04:12 PM
CAJUNLAWYER's Avatar
CAJUNLAWYER CAJUNLAWYER is offline
Member
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: On da Bayou Teche
Posts: 18,410
Likes: 18,442
Liked 58,604 Times in 9,624 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jag312 View Post
Okay! I got the picture of my USFA SA revolver. Maybe I'm not a complete idiot when it comes to computers. 4 3/4 inch barrel. .44 Special, and Paul Persinger ivory grips. I think it is a work of art.
Beautiful!! I got the hankering for a pretty case hardned single action. If I decide against the USFA, I'm gonna get a Ruger and sent it to Turnbull-they will do it for $350.00 which will still be cheaper than a USFA. Decisions....decisions...
__________________
Forum consigliere
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-12-2010, 04:48 PM
Cooter Brown Cooter Brown is offline
Member
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 1,955
Likes: 1,315
Liked 1,830 Times in 701 Posts
Default

Caj, save pennies in the pickle jar for a couple more weeks and get the USFA or the Colt.

You won't regret it.

If you ever got a chance to look at one side by side with the Ruger, the decision would make itself.

Some of the Colts coming out now are awfully nice. I think they feel the competition from USFA.

I used to have a couple of 3rd gen Colts, and they were very nice examples. The USFA has some nice features that the Colt has not had for a long time, like case colored hammers. I think in general the CCs on the USFA guns look a little better. If I were in the market, it'd be a tough choice between the Colt and the USFA.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12-12-2010, 08:19 PM
m657's Avatar
m657 m657 is offline
Member
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: sunny Orygun
Posts: 2,910
Likes: 392
Liked 307 Times in 195 Posts
Default

Being a long-time Colt fan, I finally came across a deal I couldn't pass up on the "pre-war" USFA 5 1/2" 45 SAA. It was spectacular in fit & finish. I shot it at two matches & had to send it back to factory due to hand breakage. They took care of it eventually, gave it an action job & refinished it.

Impossible to tell from 'the real deal'. However, in my hand & my mind's eye, there WAS something different about how the thing felt on dropping the hammer. It was as accurate as any Colt, but something wasn't quite right. I had to trade it off.

Caj, you don't sound like the difference between a Colt/USFA action & a Ruger makes a lot of difference to you. Some people don't mind, some don't care, some can't tell. The more you shoot these, the bigger the little things become.

I shoot 'em all with no complaints in Cowboy Action. And Ruger has its own sterling advantages.

Still, there just ain't nothing like a proper Colt SAA.

IMHO, the cross pin is a better choice. Square sight notch is much easier for geezer eyes. Bullseye ejector is a stylistic touch that has no advantage in performance as far as I could tell.

I've owned/shot many clones over the last 30 years. Most are good. Some are very good. I shot a brace of pre-1900 Colts for a decade, mostly with black powder. Those DID function better than the clones due to a few minor differences in the design.

The best I've ever owned was a 2nd year 2nd generation SAA 5 1/2" that had the most supreme trigger/lockwork I've ever felt anywhere. Cosmetic saddle tramp revolver. Whoever set it up did something truly special. It was stolen 5 years ago and I still miss it.

It's hard to go wrong with any choice of what you've mentioned.

Photos or it didn't happen.
__________________
Dum vivimus Vivamas

Last edited by m657; 12-12-2010 at 08:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12-12-2010, 09:32 PM
doublesharp's Avatar
doublesharp doublesharp is offline
Member
Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question Single Action Question  
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Derby City
Posts: 4,532
Likes: 4,618
Liked 7,407 Times in 2,221 Posts
Default

I chatted with Doug Turnbull for quite a while today and even acted like a groupie and asked him to sign one of his catalogs. He and one of his associates set up at the NGD show in Louisville. Had a 3 table end cap full of case hardened guns that they have restored. It was an extra special display. They do the case color for Colt custom shop, USFA, Winchester and they did the S&W heritage series from a few years back. He's a super nice guy and I could tell he enjoys his work.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 12-12-2010, 10:04 PM
gizamo gizamo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,406
Likes: 137
Liked 864 Times in 187 Posts
Default

Caj,.....

I've owned FA's, Rare Colts, Lot's of Ruger's.....


Buy the USFA with absolute confidence. You're gonna love your very first line-bored gun. Dang things are lasers with the right loadin's....


Steve
__________________
Non gratum anus rodentum
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
45acp, brownells, bullseye, colt, ejector, heritage, leather, ruger, saa, screwdriver, sig arms, winchester

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question for the Single Action guys aterry33 Firearms & Knives: Other Brands & General Gun Topics 39 10-01-2017 05:24 PM
Model 14-2 Single Action Only question billwill S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 1 11-15-2013 09:11 PM
Model 14 Single Action Question 23669d S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 16 06-19-2011 05:57 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:51 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)