Asking what would be a fair and reasonable price to pay for a Win. 97 trap gun. 30" matted barrel with black diamond checkered pistol grip stock and checkered forearm. All original blue and wood with a newer Winchester red pad added. Believe the stock has been cut to accomodate the pad. 13 1/2" length of pull. Probably 80-85% overall condition. Functions as it should. 12 gauge. Pretty nice gun made around 1930 I believe. Thanks!

Since no one has yet responded, I'll put in my modest bit.

There are a lot of '97s that have been "reworked" to resemble the original trap guns. Black Diamond stocks seem to almost grow on trees.

I "think" the bolt should be marked "trap gun," but am not sure all were, at least not sure about the later ones.

I would not buy it as a collector without making sure of the originality. But for the "cool factor" (even if it is reworked), it might be fun, though the recoil for a hundred rounds or more might take some of the fun out of it.

Our gunshop at my club had one a year or so ago, about $895. It say around for a long time. He has a personal one, but never has put a price on it.

The stock is already cut on the one you are considering and the original pad is gone. Not a problem for a trapshooter, since we cut, reblue, etc. all the time. But for a collector, at a collector price, that would be a deal killer.

Wish I had more knowledge, but I am now into shooters, and no pain, so a 97 is not on my wish list.

I'd want to be in this one, admittedly sight unseen, for way less than a grand. Decent Model 12 traps sell for less than a grand around here and on trapshooter sites, and, IMO, they are more desirable.

Bob

Hey thanks for the input! The bolt on the gun is marked "Trap Gun" as it should be. I've never seen the gun in person, but the fellow said he's owned it for awhile and decide to sell to finance some other pursuit. He said it looks all original except for the pad which he put on to replace another pad it wore when he bought it. he is asking around
$1300 for it, so I don't know if it's worth that or not???

'Trap Gun', marked on the bolt of the 97 doesn't necessarily mean a trap gun configuration (choke, stock dimensions, bbl length, etc). It is a grade designation of the shotgun.

The matted bbl was available as an option on the field grade guns too. I've seen a few of those upgraded with BDiamond wood to represent a graded gun. Just a possibility.

The bolts of graded guns were engraved with the trap, tournament,and pigeon gun designations but I'm not sure if that was all the way through production or not. Something to check I guess. Sometimes they changed specs for short periods.

AFAIK, the Trap came with Black Diamond wood and was the lowest grade to do so.
(There was a Standard Trap Grade in the Model 12 line around that time that didn't have the black diamond inserts in the wood. Slightly less in cost,,,trying for every bit of market they could snag!)
The aftermarket pad would be a disappointment to a collector of course but might not be so much to a shooter of vintage shotguns.

A graded 97 like that could have been ordered with any number of different recoil pads made available by the factory in the 1930 era.
A suitable era replacement, if needed, would make the shotgun more desireable to the shooter/collector out there.

The standard Winchester red rubber pad, Hawkins, Jostam, Noshoc were all available on their shotguns. They offered leather facing on any of those. I don't know when the full leather covered pads came into being. Perhaps when the Model 21 was marketed.

A decent condition original configuration sold on GB back in Nov (Oct?) for $500+. It did have a chunk out of the butt stock at the receiver on one side and a few other small marks in the wood. Not a bad gun at all. The wood could be easily repaired there not to show. The bluing probably not as good as yours though from your description.
I was tempted but I've got enough to do!
That one was marked 'trap Gun' on the bolt IIRC.

With standard 97's at $300 to $400 for a shooter around here,,it wasn't a bad price.
I would have thought it would sell for more but,,things are very slow right now in the vintage shotgun market. High condition guns still sell pretty well though.

Added: Didn't see your 2nd post about the bolt being marked till after I entered mine.

Well, I guess it would be the use you intend to make of it, should you purchase it.

For $1300 you can buy the world's nicest BT-99 and be competitive in Registered or casual shooting. Once in a while, you can pick up a BT-100 for around that price, too. A Beretta 682 can be had for just a bit more than the asking price of the '97.

An older Citori Trap O/U sells for less than a grand and a newer, used XT or similar for a few hundred more than this '97.

For your $1300 in the '97, you won't have an adjustable comb or buttplate, so the gunfit will be what it is (though you can add a spacer to increase LOP).

You won't be competitive with shooters using the '97 and most of those using Model 12s (I said most, not all) aren't competitive either.

But, there is certainly the "cool factor" in having this gun.

Mostly it depends on what you want to accomplish in buying it-shoot, shoot well, or look cool.

Bob

When I need a price confirmation I go to the Cabela's Gun Library online, and then knock off about 25% as a starting point. You don't see any 97's at the trap range anymore. There are no screw in chokes for them so you are stuck with a single pattern. If you want to make a statement and not compete, the 97 may work for you. But you could get a Benelli with several chokes, and shoot skeet, trap, goose hunt, pheasant hunt, all that.

I have a couple of 1897 Trap guns now.

As well as what has been mentioned, the top of the receiver, and the top of the receiver extension- at least on the earlier ones is matted. Also, the hammer should be different and a bit more intricately checkered that normal.

Trap guns usually have 30" or 32" barrels and may or may not be marked "full" depending upon vintage. The one feature that seems to make the price go up is the presence of the factory Winchester black hard rubber buttplate. To my knowledge, there has never been a reproduction of this buttplate (I've been searching)- and it is much larger and quite different from the standard ones.

It is true these guns are not encountered with regularity, but with the stock cut, I'd recommend giving it a very wide birth at that price. Collectors would rather have a nice, untouched piece if possible. I looked at one with similar problems a bit back- it just didn't make anywhere good economic sense to try to rehabilitate it. An S&W is an easy restoration compared to these things. If done correctly that is.

But hey, if it makes you happy go ahead- but be willing to take a loss on it as it is, a larger loss if restored, and check the chamber if you are going to shoot it- forcing cones and even chamber lengths on 1897's tend to be a bit short for plastic shells.

Also, check the bore! I have seen many 1897's with crazy things done to the bores- likely for "turkey" or "card" shooting, and many have been sleeved. If the bore looks strange- run away! Maybe sleeving for card shooting is just a N. Georgia or W. North Carolina thing, but I doubt it.

__________________
Lost it all in a boat accident

Hope this isn't too late.

Andy Griffith's post reminded me of a common thing done to all sorts of shotgun barrels.

Guys shooting trap or clays with a full choke often have them reamed out to Improved Modified or Modified or even something more open. This is much cheaper than buying another barrel and works just fine.

However, the barrels are still marked "Full" and often sold without mentioning the alterations.

For anything close to the money you are considering spending here, you need to measure the bore (that takes a special tool that is common at any trap club. Don't fall for the sticking a dime in the muzzle to see if it's full or not).

If it's been opened, you have lost any real collector value.

Very commonly encountered in fixed choke Model 12s, 870s, 58s, etc.

Bob

I have encountered a lot of "card" guns that have had the barrels swagged down too in an effort to get a tighter choke. Unless you just collect Winchesters or 97's I wouldnt buy it. I love 97's so dont get me wrong, but at that price I would look for something correct if it was for a collection. Someone far wiser than me told me a while back "If there is anything at all about the gun you have to keep explaining down the road...it aint worth buying"