The past lives of a gun

[David LaPell]

As I have been recuperating I have had alot of time to think about a few things to write about, some are just the usual daydreams (I get alot of those). One I was thinking of was the past lives of a gun. I try to imagine some if these older guns, the ones that have been around for a while, where they have been, who held them etc.

This old M & P has always intrigued me. I sent out a request for a letter on this one just because it begged for it. It has been around for 60 years or so and I can only imagine where it has been. Was it a cops gun? Did someone famous own it?




One rifle that I once owned was a Model 1894 Winchester SRC in .25-35. It came from a Utah sheep ranch and had spent so much time in a saddle scabbard that the forearm was worn flat. The buttstock had broken off a long time ago and was replaced by a piece of rough cut Ponderosa pine and the buttplate was screwed back on. I try to imagine where guns that like that had been.

I try to imagine who held those old timers, like the Winchester 73 and the 1892 rifle I had from 1894, or the 1895 vintage 1894 .38-55 I once owned had been. Or the 1907 vintage FN pistol. Imagine how many places they had been or who were their owners?

Most of my guns are older than I am, even it not by alot. Some are only around forty years old, some are nearly seventy. I don't have alot of older guns anymore, like some of the early Winchesters I used to own. The other day I saw an old 1894 SRC Winchester in .32 Special. With guns being shipped all over the country now, it is really imagine that some of these guns could have literally come from anywhere. They could have been held by anyone. The possibilities are endless.

[P&R Fan]

That's why I always cringe when people re-blue the older guns. I know some of the nicks and scratches on mine all have their own stories. Refinishing erases that.
I'm with you on this one. If only they could talk..........

[whitecoyote]

Very nice M&P.
Many of the firearms we see here on the S&W forum have a story to tell. Unfortunately their story is lost to history, we can only imagine where they have been.
Excellent thread.
But some do have a story to tell. Here is a S&W revolver that had a story to tell.

S&W 1905 second change (interesting history)

[BUFF]

Yes, it makes one wonder when holding an old piece.

I have a Remington-Rand 1911-A1 I bought from a coworker. It belonged to his father, who obtained it during WWII while he was an officer and a veterinarian in Doug MacArthur's army (they used mules in the Pacific). My friend knew his dad had been in the Philipines towards the end of the war but knew little else about where he had served. He doesn't know at what point dad got the .45, or if he ever fired it; dad wasn't talkative about the war and my fried wan't too curious. I am a lot more curious about that gun's history than he was.

Or a Springfield Armory M-1 Garand I had. It was WWII production, about 1942. Where did it get it's dings and wear? Did it just stay stateside or did it see hard times? Europe? Italy? The Pacific?

Or a later S.A. Garand I still have? Too young for WWII but made before Korea.

Or an M-1 Carbine? Or a 1944-made Victory M&P?

Perhaps the most compelling one I think about is my First Model Schofield. It was shipped from the factory to the U.S Armory at Springfield, MA on July 12, 1875. Where did it go from there?

Yes, it really would be great if these things could talk.

[walnutred]

I once owned an Austrian M1854 rifle musket that had had the brass wrist escutcheon removed and the Stars and Bars stamped in it's place. This made me thing it had changed hands at least once during the Civil War.

[Frank237]

I've often wondered the same thing...especially with war time pieces or guns I've found out here in Montana that have seen a lot of use. Many times I've mentioned..."If this gun could talk..I wonder what it would tell us"?

At a gun show years back I saw a nice Winchester 1886 a full mag rifle. On the lft side of the stock the word "elk" was carved, and behind it...well over THIRTY notches. So one would assume that gun had killed that many elk.

Or this FBI Thompson that was originally sent to the Chicago, IL Field Office and signed for by Special Agent Ness.



Wish I'd taken a few shots of the hardcase. Got to shoot it which was a nice experience. Wonder what that gun saw during it's time in Chicago? Wonder who carried it..who it had been pointed AT or had it fired any shots in anger? and at WHO.

Frank237

[bigolddave]

Last fall I picked up a Savage 1895 in Rapid City, SD; it had come from a large local collection. It had obviously been used quite a bit, and had two rows of notches on the top of the forearm. One side had about 25 quite small marks, and the other about a dozen much larger ones. Deer on one side, elk on the other? Or maybe beercans on one side, stop signs on the other? Who knows!

Another Savage, this one a first year 250/3000 with some deluxe features had been delivered to the corporate secretary of Savage at that time, and later had been back to the factory four times, returned to Fred J. Rath, who at one time was mayor of Utica, NY, home of Savage, and later was a NY state senator. The rifle had been well cared for, but had obviously been hunted with. Sure wish I had a picture of Fred hunting with the rifle; I can see him with a buffalo plaid Woolrich suit, and high lace up boots!

[Bat Guano]

I did some "conservation" of guns for a local museum a few years back. One of them was a somewhat battered old Sharps rifle--don't remember the particulars anymore. But the buttstock had been replaced by some piece of gnarly local wood, possibly cottonwood. Anyone that knows these rifles is acquainted with the complex inletting around the lock plate. On the replacement it was done moderately well but nowhere as well as on a factory stock which was machine cut. Not to mention that it was a helluva lot of work with lousy wood; I would not want to do today.

Now I know that this was a long way from any railroads 130 years ago, but still, there had to be a ton of surplus Sharps stocks sitting around in Bannerman's castle then, and any gunsmith would have known how to get one. The only thing I can figure is that the owner had all winter to whittle this one out next to the stove, waiting for spring to come.

As you say, the stories would be something to hear.

[rburg]

Its the best argument I've heard for gun registration. So subsequent owners can see where its been and who owned it. Too late now, the good history is gone.

Its one of the things we all hope for when we splurge on factory letters. We hope we win the lottery and it comes back having shipped to someone of consequence. Most come back to a hardware store or distributor.

I prefer to dream up my own stories. Its what the OP should be doing in his recovery. Must be good drugs the doc prescribed!

We've got a family 45-70 Springfield. I passed it along to my youngest with instructions (not needed) it goes to his son. Its really a M1884 due to its rear sight. Not a biggie. It carries along a bayonet I acquired for it. The army didn't pay attention to what bayonet went with which gun anyhow.

The family got the gun in the very early 1900s. My grandfather and grandmother got married up in 1904, so according to family lore it was in that time frame they bought it from the US Government. One of the family tragedies was the loss of the receipt. The gun was $1.75, and the 20 rounds of ammo cost $1.50! A little imbalance. I've still got, someplace, what is claimed to be an original round of ammo from that original box. Looks like a 45 cal rimfire. Really its inside primed (hidden primer).

They bought it to slaughter hogs and beefs. Besides, any farm worth its salt had a gun around the premises. One of the big benefits was the discovery it would shoot .410 shotgun shells. By 1925 my grandfather had died in an accident and my dad ran a trapline along a local creek. Carrying along the artillery piece wasn't real practical, so he approached the local Chief of Police. He understood and sold Dad a .32 Regulation Police which he used for that purpose. When Dad died in 1980, my brother wanted the revolver, which he promptly sold. Of course I hope the Springfield stays in the family for a few more generations.

These threads bring back memories, and make me remember things I haven't done. I've gotta dig out that cartridge and find a cloth bag to put it in, then give it to my youngest. Hope he's smart enough not to try to fire it. Its got to be mercuric primed black powder. And I need to look at the headstamp, Its 1880s I think, but can't remember.

[whitecoyote]

Here's a gun that I'm sure did some talking. It once belonged to the Purple Gang (Detroit). It was fished out of the Detroit river many years ago.

[whitecoyote]

Sometimes gun registration ain't so bad...
I recently aquired this Colt 1908 Pocket Hammerless .380 acp. It's just an oridinary Colt Pocket Hammerless. The Colt was manufactured in 1916. Nothing special about it, except it once belonged to Bartholmew McGraw. Now you ask, who is Bartholmew McGraw? I haven't a clue, but I have his Colt Pocket Hammerless.
Handgun registration in Michigan started in the early 1920's. This particular Colt, if not for gun registration would be just another Colt. But what makes this Colt Pocket Hammerless special is Bartholmew McGraw registered it on December 7th 192? (exact year is unknown)
Bartholmew McGraw was born on October 20th, 1867. He was a white male with grey hair, and blue eyes. At the time of registration Bartholmew McGraw was "retired", and lived at 1066 W. Baltimore Ave., Detroit, Michigan (48202, no zips in the 1920's).
The Colt was registered by Lt. Jas Lynch 1st Precinct, Detroit Police Department.
It's amazing the the "Safety Inspection Certificate" (gun registration) survived all these years with the Colt Pocket Hammerless.
Other than that, gun registration sucks!
Maybe when the weather warms, I'll check out some cemeteries. I'm sure Bartholmew McGraw didn't go far.
Without further ado, may I present Bartholmew McGraws Colt 1908 Pocket Hammerless.







This is where Bartholmew McGraw would have lived at the time of registration, 1066 W. Baltimore, Detroit Michigan. It looks like the residence is long gone.

[feralmerril]

This 1st or 2nd year american has got me wondering the most. I was told it was found at a old stage coach stop somewhere in montanna when a barn was tore down. Actualy, I would like to know the history on all three of these. The 1858 new model remington has been refinished, and the 50 caliber double pin fire is probley from roughly 1830s to 1850s.

[mjr]

Originally Posted by rburg

We've got a family 45-70 Springfield. .... The family got the gun in the very early 1900s. My grandfather and grandmother got married up in 1904, so according to family lore it was in that time frame they bought it from the US Government. One of the family tragedies was the loss of the receipt. The gun was $1.75, and the 20 rounds of ammo cost $1.50!

My grandparents got married in Eastern Missouri in 1911, and a little after that Grandpa also bought Trapdoor Carbine for very little money. He hunted with it some and one time killed a black bear. My dad says the bearskin was a rug in his parents' house for years until the hair was nearly all worn away. I hope my cousin or her son still has it.

[Frank46]

I did a little horse trading once with another foreman and myself. He got the WWII saur 38H in 32 auto and I got the 1943
Ithaca 1911A1. After he retired he wrote a little book detailing his wartime experiences. Since he ended up in the tank corps he had complained about that 45 getting dinged on the muzzle when getting in and out of the tank. I dug the old girl and sure enough the high standard barrel was all dinged up at the muzzle. He had traded me his service pistol. Frank