Lever Gun Advice

[Bullseye 2620]

I am looking for a deer rifle well suited to where I live here in the Blue Ridge. Shots are rarely over 100 yards. It is my belief that more deer have been taken here with lever actions using the venerable .30-30 than with any other rifle/ammo combination, so I am inclined in that direction, but I recognize my ignorance and am looking for recommendations as to maker, model, and caliber. I'd go up to a grand, if necessary.

Deer hunters in the Appalachians are especially welcome to offer their suggestions.

Thanks so much guys!


Bullseye

[bigshot500]

Henry rifles (the big boy is the model your seeking) are a work of art, you can get a 30-30 for the 500-600 area new when on sale. The craftmanship is vastly superior to marlin or winchester of current or recent vintage. Many of my friends hunt with their marlins, winchester levers...they have dropped alot of deer. that being said when one takes out a henry rifle...bring a rag for their drool...oh and to those who say the brass, shiny reciever will scare deer...you can do one of two things, cover it with some camo or black tape or do what I do, ignore them and show them your freezer

[Steve in Vermont]

A good Winchester or Marlin in 30-30 or .44 Rem Mag. will serve you well. The most important thing will be practice. Shoot in low light, rain, fog, sitting, standing, etc. The conditions in which you will hunt. And a realistic deer target would be a nice touch.
Also, you might consider a low power (4X) scope with good low light capability and a post/cross hair that will make it easier to see in dense brush. Good Luck.

[NFrameFred]

Since Winchester stopped their traditional 94 production prices on the old Winnie 30-30's have jumped 300% in general. Glad I bought mine when they could be picked up used for 75 bucks .

IMO the Marlins (336 and like) are the better value, and my personal preference is the 35 Remington over the 30-30. Still good for the range you specify and throws a 200 grain pill with more cross-sectional density/area. Plus, the Marlins are infinitely easier to mount optics on and I think the actions are demonstrably smoother. Used Marlins (many times with optics accompanying) are found in my area in the $275 to $400 range, with average specimens going from $300 to $350.

The 35 Remington has a reputation for being finicky to re-load since folks who don't do proper case preparation the first time they load the empties tend to ruin a few in the bullet-seating stage. The inside of the case mouths should be lightly chamfered and a bullet with a slight or rounded heel works best, but the flat-based bullets that cause neck crushing the most work fine if the proper care and time is taken.

Unless you intend to use it as you would when hunting with a handgun, I'd stay away from the carbines that use the revolver rounds. 100 yard shots with a 357, 45 Colt, or even the 44 mag through a carbine are doable, just not as reliable and, in my book, ethical as a full powered rifle cartridge.

[Andy Griffith]

Go and pick up a good used Marlin...or Winchester if you can find one in a decent price range- the older the better on the Winchester, but even the post-64 rifles will shoot fine- they just hadn't held any value until the 94 was discontinued.

The Henry is a nice rifle, but it's the heaviest lever-action deer rifle money can buy- it's much heavier than the Marlin, which is heavier than the Winchester. It may shoot like a house-a-fire, but I'd hate to tote it- it's a range or treestand gun.

I've still got my father's pre-64 94, and he toted it more than he ever shot it, which is why a very light rifle is what you want. A good used Marlin with a clean barrel that hasn't been "monkeyed" with will be the best value- likely between $150 and $300, with emphasis closer to the first figure- but I don't know if you have them in droves in most shops like we do down here. I haven't seen a Marlin yet that wouldn't shoot with factory ammunition- unless the bore was allowed to rust.

[Maximumbob54]

I bought a Marlin 336. Then I bought another Marlin 336 because I like the first one so much. I wanted one with a decent wood stock and to stay with a classic look, and I wanted to put on plastic stock set and a scope. I want to add a more weather resistant finish to the plastic stock rifle. Both of them are in .30-30 although I now wish I had bought one in .35 Remington just for a difference. I have a Winchester 1892 in .357 and a 1894 in .30-30 and I like the Marlins better. I have a Henry .22 lever and I am hoping that the .30-30 rifles are leaps above the .22 versions in quality. The only real benefit I see to the Henry design is the mag tube being so easy to remove ammo and minimize the risk of deforming a bullet. I just hope they aren’t full of the same plastic and pot metal internals that my .22 has. With the Marlin you get a strong action, proper ability to mount a scope, and a truck load of third party options. I also love Mad Ogre’s shorty “tactical” Marlin. I may one day do the same to my plastic stock rifle.

One last time, I say MARLIN 336!!!

[Raider]

I would go with a Marlin 336 in 30-30. They areeasy handling, accurate and oh so easy to carry.

[VAdoublegunner]

If you want to scope it, find a good deal on a used Win 94 AE or a Marlin 336, or 1894, in whatever chambering you like. I prefer pistol cartridges in carbines, like 44Mag, or 45 Colt or 357 Mag in suitable handloads if ranges are under 100 yards.

If you don't care for scoping it, then you can add one of the repro Win 1892s in 44Mag, 45 Colt, or 357Mag with the right handloads.

Then there is always the Browning BLR, one of the ultimate lever actions. I've seen some good used deals lately on them. They handle modern bottlenecked cartridges, increasing your range and power, are bolt rifle accurate and are easy to scope.

My personal favorite lever action for deer hunting? It is a Winchester 1894 Trapper AE in 45 Colt. I have it set up with a compact Burris 2.5 power scope. With a 250gr Hornady XTP-HP (or 300gr if you prefer, they feed fine if crimped in the top groove) and a good handload using Ruger level charges of WW296, it will give me 2.5" accuracy at 100yards will hit like a 45-70. Plus, the Trapper length is very easy to carry.

[LoboGunLeather]

I'd rather spend $400 to $600 for a pre-64 Winchester Model 94 carbine in good to excellent condition. Great little rifles for the conditions you have described, and the value will always be there (and growing every year).

Good service and great investment. Excellent combination.

[Maximumbob54]

Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather

I'd rather spend $400 to $600 for a pre-64 Winchester Model 94 carbine in good to excellent condition. Great little rifles for the conditions you have described, and the value will always be there (and growing every year).

Good service and great investment. Excellent combination.

Lobo,

Where are you finding pre-64 Winchester anything at those prices???

[35Rem]

Marlin 336 in 35 Remington (of course!). Hits like the Hammer of Thor!

[NFrameFred]

Since the subject has come up regarding the use of optics on a lever gun, many of us don't have much choice anymore since passing the mid 40's and the onset of presbyopia, but, (PERSONAL OPINION/PREFERENCE warning!) I can stand a scope on a Marlin lever rifle if necessary, but a scope on a model 94 Winchester is just plain wrong ! Oliver's lever rifle was made to be fired with iron sights, while standing on your hind legs like the good Lord intended.

And the ones who mounted those abominable off-set scopes on the pre-angle eject 94's are the worst offenders. Same kind of guys that used to put curb feelers on their huge sedans, I guess . . . . should be classified as a crime against a classic gun. I'm just waiting for some tacticool fool to market a bi-pod for a '94

[Andy Griffith]

I thought '94s supposed to be shot off horseback?
Why would I not want to use a perfectly good horse?

[NFrameFred]

Originally Posted by Andy Griffith

I thought '94s supposed to be shot off horseback?
Why would I not want to use a perfectly good horse?

Ok, I'll give ya that one

[yaktamer]

I have a Marlin 30AS (cheap version of the 336) in .30-30 that I love. Shoots decent groups with iron sights and my lousy eyes. Hornady's "Leverevolution" ammo significantly increases the effective range.

[Snapping Twig]

All brands have their plus's and minuses. IMO, Marlin is the best bang for the buck with top mouting points for a scope and ease of maintenance with simple bolt removal.

Out to 100 yards, all are accurate and effective. Marlin bores run fat, so for cast bullets you need to match the bullet to the bore, but once done, they are bolt gun accurate - no joke.

Caliber... up to you really. I chose a .44 and a 45-70, so I have all my bases covered, but you may like a more traditional 30-30 or the .35 Rem or whatever.

Pistol calibers in the long barrel of a lever gun accelerate due to use of the extra barrel and a .44 load that goes 1200fps in a revolver leaves the lever at 1800fps - please note the extra horsepower therein. At 100 yards that's still several hundred fps faster than at the muzzle of a revolver. Name me the animal that can hold up to a point blank .44, then add several hundred fps and ask the same question.

Same applies to all pistol calibers in a lever. Reloading exploits this feature.

Good luck with your search.

[NFrameFred]

Originally Posted by Snapping Twig

Pistol calibers in the long barrel of a lever gun accelerate due to use of the extra barrel and a .44 load that goes 1200fps in a revolver leaves the lever at 1800fps

I've A/B'd quite a few rounds through a chronograph with a handgun and then the same load through a carbine and have personally not found this to be the case - an additional 600 fps without increasing the load is quite a bit. I have seen over 250 fps gain on such but not the numbers you cite.

Originally Posted by Snapping Twig

Reloading exploits this feature.

That we can agree on. You can load a 44 mag for carbine I would not want to shoot in my 29's.

[Hofstet]

Check out the Browning BLR Lightweight in Stainless Steel/Laminate.
I like either the 7mm-08 Remington, .270, or .270 WSM for deer.

[Steve in Vermont]

Just as a follow-up, my first deer rifle was a Marlin 336 in .35 Caliber. As others have said, a great rifle and cartridge (comes in 150 and 200 gr. if memory serves) but stick with the 200, and the rifle easily accepts a scope. I have to say this would be my first choice. And you could start out w/o a scope but as you get older (speaking from experience) add one. Again, consider the post crosshair as it stands out nicely in dense brush and low light.

[Maximumbob54]

I know I'm wrong, but I never think of the BLR as a lever rifle. I'm only 32 but it just feels too modern to be in the same family. Not that any of us alive are old enough to have rubbed shoulders with John or Olin... Just saying. But a BLR in 7mm08 would be one sweet rifle. I would scope it with one of the new Redfields in 2-7 power.

But it still wouldn't feel the same...

[badguybuster]

If you really want a good one. A Henry 30-30 cant be beat, the even make a canitlever so you can scope them. I like my Marlin too. Its a 357 mag and its deadly accurate out to 100 yards.

[Frizzman]

I have a Marlin 1895 .45/70 and a Henry Big Boy in .45 Colt as well as two 94 Winchesters in .30/30. The two Winchesters are from the 60's. They are fancy one's give to me as gifts...a Golden Spike carbine and a Buffalo Bill rifle. I don't hunt with those. Of the lever guns I have, I use the .45/70 for a main deer rifle. I like the cartridge and handload it. Its capable of taking Eastern Whitetail easily and pretty much anything else in North or South America. I have a Weaver 2.5X shotgun scope on it that works perfectly for the type of rifle. I have done most of my deer hunting over these many years in the mountains of Virginia. Most shots have been at closer ranges but there have been a few at 150 yards or more. The Browning BLR would be a good choice for this kind of shooting. The lightweight version in a decent caliber would work well for all types of shooting situations. Its not a traditional lever action but might be more versatile than the Marlin/Winchester/Henry rifles...

[epj]

Surprised that no one has mentioned the Savage 99. These can be had in a wide range of calibers and can use spire point bullets. Personally, I'd go with a Marlin 1894 in .44 Mag. I'd try to find an old one without that stupid crossbolt safety. I had one years back and it was very handy for toting in the woods and mountains. The new Hornady ammo ought to be pretty impressive in it for whitetail.

[gregintenn]

Surprised that no one has mentioned the Savage 99. These can be had in a wide range of calibers and can use spire point bullets.

I was just about to. The 99 Savage is the perfect deer hunting machine. There are models out there that would suit most any taste. I currently own 6, and that's just because I haven't found #7 yet. A pre 64, model 94 Winchester comes in as a close second for me.

[feralmerril]

Heck, for less than the thousand you qouted you should be able to find a winchester 94, 64 or model 88. I have all 3. Certainly you could find anyone of them in excellent condition for that. I bought my 94 new around 1957. You want to stay under 1964 manufactor dates. Not a lever, but probley the finest cheapest gun for the money would be a remington pump 760. Mine is in 30-06.

[feralmerril]

Here is a couple more that will fill the bill. Browning 92 in 44 mag, and a rossi 92 in .357 mag. I bought the rossi not that long ago for somewhere in the $300 range. The browning 92 will push your $1,000 limit, but I bet you even can find one of those like new for around $700 to $800s. If you look close the browning has the gold trigger. Otherwise you can hardly tell the rossi and browning apart.

[feralmerril]

Since I showed so many levers, here is my old winchester 95 in 30-40 just for fun. It would be more than a $1,000s though.

[smith17]

I know I'm wrong, but I never think of the BLR as a lever rifle. I'm only 32 but it just feels too modern to be in the same family. Not that any of us alive are old enough to have rubbed shoulders with John or Olin... Just saying. But a BLR in 7mm08 would be one sweet rifle. I would scope it with one of the new Redfields in 2-7 power.

Bob:
I have that exact setup, including the Redfield and it is a hard combo to beat. Light and easy to carry, minimal recoil and Hornady makes an SST bullet that is crazy effective. The only thing I would change about mine would be the straight English stock.

Addressing the question by the original poster, I would go with a BLR in .358 for the limited range shots. One advantage the BLR has is that the trigger rides with the lever, ensuring a quicker followup if needed.

[mtgianni]

Originally Posted by smith17

I know I'm wrong, but I never think of the BLR as a lever rifle. I'm only 32 but it just feels too modern to be in the same family. Not that any of us alive are old enough to have rubbed shoulders with John or Olin... Just saying. But a BLR in 7mm08 would be one sweet rifle. I would scope it with one of the new Redfields in 2-7 power.

Bob:
I have that exact setup, including the Redfield and it is a hard combo to beat. Light and easy to carry, minimal recoil and Hornady makes an SST bullet that is crazy effective. The only thing I would change about mine would be the straight English stock.

Addressing the question by the original poster, I would go with a BLR in .358 for the limited range shots. One advantage the BLR has is that the trigger rides with the lever, ensuring a quicker followup if needed.

Another BLR owner in 308 and 358. You might not like their non-traditional looks but they carry and shoot like levers with a quick follow up shot if needed. Scoping them is a breeze.

[2152hq]

I'd either get a Marlin in 30-30 or 35R (cheapest name brand most likely) or for some more $$ a Winchester 94 in 30-30.
Lots of pre-64 Winchester 94 carbines sell in auction sites like GunBroker in the $400-$600 range. Not pristine collectors examples of course, but some nice hunting guns.

If you really want to spend it all and with a $1k limit, you really have alot to pick from. Most any of the Winchesters, Savage, Browning, etc. L/A model hunting rifles are within reach.
Even the Winchester 95 if you look around a bit,,and get lucky.

If you want to expand the field to pump rifles (great woods hunting guns),,the older Remington Model 14 and 141 rifles can still be found in the $400 to $500 range in very nice condition. Get one in 35Remington to keep ammo problems at bay. The later Remington models seem to be widely available & liked too but I have no experience with them.

[Snapping Twig]

Originally Posted by NFrameFred

I've A/B'd quite a few rounds through a chronograph with a handgun and then the same load through a carbine and have personally not found this to be the case - an additional 600 fps without increasing the load is quite a bit. I have seen over 250 fps gain on such but not the numbers you cite.



That we can agree on. You can load a 44 mag for carbine I would not want to shoot in my 29's.

FWIW, I've never bought a factory load for my firearms - save for .22lr.

My experience is that fast powder loads gain little to nothing from a lever gun, but slow powders do. In a revolver lead moves 50 to 100fps faster than the same charge and bullet weight than jacketed. All I shoot is lead.

I shoot the same rounds in my 29's and 629's that I shoot in my 1894 and the velocity gain is real. I suppose that's a benefit of using W296. Not talking maxed out loads either.

[Freischütz]

A Win M95 in 30/06 or 30/40 would be a good choice. You can use any style of bullet you want. If you get a takedown, you'll have a very hand item for travel.

[reddogge]

I'd lean towards a Marlin 336 in .35 Remington. All of my camp hunting companions use Winchester 94s with offset scopes in .30-30. The offset scope is quirky and the .30-30 will not knock even a small Sika deer down quickly. Most have to be trailed and I have been on the trailing details too many times to trust a .30-30. Let the flames begin fromt the .30-30 lovers.

[dmar]

Originally Posted by reddogge

I'd lean towards a Marlin 336 in .35 Remington. All of my camp hunting companions use Winchester 94s with offset scopes in .30-30. The offset scope is quirky and the .30-30 will not knock even a small Sika deer down quickly. Most have to be trailed and I have been on the trailing details too many times to trust a .30-30. Let the flames begin fromt the .30-30 lovers.

Bullseye, my experience is that the .30-30 is fine with deer, if you do your part. I grew up hunting with a Winchester .30-30. That being said, for lever duty these days, I go with my Marlin .444, or Marlin .35 Rem, both rounds really make it happen... Some people swear by the .45/70, but to me, that's probably overkill in Appalachian deer hunting, but different strokes for different folks... Although, it is a very versatile caliber if you reload.

Overall, I'm a big fan of lever guns. Like everyone else on this forum, I guess I have too many guns, and my appreciation of lever guns has not helped this situation! I've got all sorts of calibers, .444 Marlin, .375 win, .30-30s, .35 rem, .44 mag, .357s (in Winchester, Marlin, and Puma, all great/fun shooters, those .357s...) and .22s.

I've always been partial to Winchesters, as I like the way they handle (light, thin, and very handy...). The pre 64s are great, and you can find some nice later ones, too. My favorite Winny is a .30-30 wartime, 'long wood' forearm 94, in beautiful condition. I've also come to really appreciate the Marlin lever guns. Heavier, nice action, more rugged feel, and just very nice guns. You can find some good deals on shooter Marlins if you look around.

I don't have a Henry, and do not like their painted, pot metal covered receivers on their standard .22s. I do like the Golden Boys, much, much nicer quality (including some nice wood...). Although, the GBs have a funky angle to the stock, and to me just does not fit right. All of the Henry's I've fired have excellent actions; very smooth...

I really like lever guns in .22. I've got a couple of Winchester 9422s, one early model, and one of the last produced in New Haven. If you like lever guns, you have to love the Marlin 36. In fact, I just realized another gun I have to shoot tomorrow!

Merrill, great collection of Winchesters there, beautiful guns, love that 64 and 1895! Envy comes to mind... I've got my eye out for a nice 64, as well as a Savage 99; one of these days...

[stonehorses]

Hey Bullseye. My husband has used a Marlin 336 30-30 for several years. He also suggests a 35 Rem or even a 32 special. His longest shot was maybe 50 yards at this end of the County.
Shoot us a pm or email if we can be of further help.

[LoboGunLeather]

Originally Posted by Maximumbob54

Lobo,

Where are you finding pre-64 Winchester anything at those prices???

Check out Gunbroker.com. Lots of pre-64 Model 94's show up in various conditions, of course. I've been outfitting my grandchildren, one at a time. Most recently, I bought a 1960-made Model 94 carbine .30-30 in solid 98% condition for $415 delivered to my local FFL. I picked up a 1955-made Model 94 carbine .32 Win. Spl. in 90% condition for about the same money about a year ago.

I also found a really sweet pre-WW2 Model 55 Deluxe Takedown for under $1000, including a fitted hard leather case.

There are lots of dealers who set minimum bids that are in the upper atmosphere, just like there are in every gun store. But there are also lots of folks who actually want to SELL, and good deals can be found with a little effort.

Best regards.

[Faulkner]

Originally Posted by Bullseye 2620

I am looking for a deer rifle well suited to where I live here in the Blue Ridge. Shots are rarely over 100 yards. It is my belief that more deer have been taken here with lever actions using the venerable .30-30 than with any other rifle/ammo combination, so I am inclined in that direction, but I recognize my ignorance and am looking for recommendations as to maker, model, and caliber. I'd go up to a grand, if necessary.

Deer hunters in the Appalachians are especially welcome to offer their suggestions.

Thanks so much guys!


Bullseye

Based on Bullsye's original post I think the .30-30 lever gun is absolutley adequate for what he's looking for. I've deer hunted in the Arkansas Ozarks my whole life and have seldom been undergunned with a one.

Between me and my two sons we've taken dozens of whitetails with my Marlin 336 and very few did we have to trail. Most shot opportunities where we hunt are limited to much less than 100 yard and one shot stops are common.




I've also taken to using a .357 magnum lever gun for deer hunting the past few years. Since it seems many of our shot opportunities are really more in the 50 to 60 yard range I've been using my 'scopeless' lever guns to good success. Between my 14 year old and I we've taken four whitetails with a .357 lever gun and all were one shot stops where they dropped in within 20 yards of the hit.

Back in the late 1800's the 44-40 and 38-40 blackpowder rounds in a lever gun were considered ace deer slayers, the .30-30 or .357 magnum will outperform them.

[PALADIN85020]

I'll put my two cents worth in here. In my experience, a .30/30 levergun kicks like a mule. It's just downright painful for me to shoot it very much. This does not speak well for practice.

My vote would go to a Model 1892 Winchester, Browning or Rossi, chambered for .44 Magnum. I prefer the '92 to the 1894 rifles in the same chambering primarily due to its smoother operation, as it's basically an ubersmooth 1886 model scaled down. Now let me tell you that a full-house .44 Magnum will also kick like hell in a 5.5 pound rifle, BUT you can practice all day with .44 specials. Sight in with the .44 Mag and use it for hunting, but for practice that's easy on the shoulder, those .44 special rounds are a godsend.

Here's my .44 Mag Model '92 Browning; in my opinion the ideal closer-range deer rifle.

John

[tdan]

Here's one to mull over..........****ger 96 in 44Mag. Don't let naysayers scare you off from the 44Mag as a practical short range brush cartridge. In the 18.5" barrel of this carbine, a 240gr. XTP clocks 1720fps. Mine will keep 4 shots into 3/4" at 50 yds. I have a Bushnell Trophy 1.75-4X scope with the circle-x reticle that is just perfect for this gun. This is a very compact, lightweight package. I did make some mods. I couldn't stand that cheapo 10/22 design curved plastic buttplate. I bondo-ed up the butt, and fitted a proper recoil pad to give me a 14" pull. That small 1/2" Kick-Eez pad keeps the butt snug on the shoulder, and the little gun is a pussycat to shoot. Perfect for me! The factory supplies a fairly heavy, although crisp, trigger pull with this gun. All you have to do is replace that heavy factory trigger return spring with something lighter........along the lines of what you will find in a ball-point pen. Voila.........No takeup whatsoever, and the trigger breaks like glass at just over 2 lbs. Easiest action job I ever did in my life. You would be hard pressed to find another lever gun with such a nice trigger!

[sigp220.45]

Another vote for the late great Savage 99:

[Jswiney9]

from another blue ridge mountain boy........ do yourself a favor, dont spend a ton of money on a new lever gun when you can get a good USED marlin 336 .30-30 for around 300 bucks.

Load it up with LEVERevolution 140gr monoflex (we shot them out to 200 yards and kept good groupings) the bullets retain 95% of their weight and boy do they fly.

[smith17]

I just got back from taking 3 high school buddies (graduated 36 years ago) hog hunting and we had 3 levers and one semi-auto, taking 11 animals. Two .30-30s, a .357 and one .308 in a Model 100. I thought it was kind of neat to have 3 levers in camp. I forbade .223s.
Ed

[Gebe]

I am so AMAZED that this thread hasn't degraded into how TERRIBLE the 30-30 is for deer or for that matter, even a fox! I thank the people here who are in the know!

Yes, more deer have been taken with the 30-30 than any other cartridge!
I continue to be amazed at how gun magazines nowadays consider the venerable 30-30 as nothing much more than a .22 rimfire!

It's always bigger is better and blah, blah, blah. I'm not saying the 30-30 is an ideal round but it's been used for deer, even bear and all sorts of critters for over a century.

It is an ideal brush gun at 50-75 yards but like one said, with the new Hornady LEVERevolution ammo, it can now reach out to 200 yards or better if you know what you're doing.

You would never know it by reading all the gun magazines and listening to responses on internet forums. 30-30's should only be used for rabbits, or at the maximum, maybe the a racoon. That is IF you can find an article on the 30-30!

In the end, I guess we all should all succumb to getting rid of our weak 30-30's and get the next, latest, greatest caliber that the magazine articles tell us to as that's where they're money comes from!

[LoboGunLeather]

Originally Posted by Gebe

I am so AMAZED that this thread hasn't degraded into how TERRIBLE the 30-30 is for deer or for that matter, even a fox! I thank the people here who are in the know!

Yes, more deer have been taken with the 30-30 than any other cartridge!
I continue to be amazed at how gun magazines nowadays consider the venerable 30-30 as nothing much more than a .22 rimfire!

It's always bigger is better and blah, blah, blah. I'm not saying the 30-30 is an ideal round but it's been used for deer, even bear and all sorts of critters for over a century.

It is an ideal brush gun at 50-75 yards but like one said, with the new Hornady LEVERevolution ammo, it can now reach out to 200 yards or better if you know what you're doing.

You would never know it by reading all the gun magazines and listening to responses on internet forums. 30-30's should only be used for rabbits, or at the maximum, maybe the a racoon. That is IF you can find an article on the 30-30!

In the end, I guess we all should all succumb to getting rid of our weak 30-30's and get the next, latest, greatest caliber that the magazine articles tell us to as that's where they're money comes from!

If you haven't noticed and made the connection yet, the gun magazines feature write-ups on products made by the companies that buy advertising in the magazines. It's all about product promotion, creating buyer demand, and selling products.

Best regards.

[NFrameFred]

There is much validity to the notion that the old thutty-thutty gets a bad rap. But I maintain that most gun owners CAN"T SHOOT.

I'm talking about the AVERAGE gun owner who owns a shotgun, a 22 rifle and one or two more and their attitude is "ammo is too expensive and I can't afford to shoot much or I don't have a place to shoot." "Besides, I been a-shootin' fer years and I ain't never needed nothin' fancy and I've kilt hunnerts o' deer !" "No, I don't need to practice - I can do it when I need to". Ad nauseum - we've all heard it.

Yes - in capable hands a 357 or a 44 mag 75 to 100 yards out will do the job. Iron sights will do the job. What the heck - a .22 LR will do the job in the right hands. But for the average, casual shooter, a hard to shoot gun/marginal cartridge/hard to use/inadequate sights, etc . do not help. I worked with a clown that swore by the 30 Carbine as an all around cartridge for anything from mice to moose - he had killed "dozens" of deer with it. But I was around him enough to know that every year he wounded several before finally lucking up and killing one but it was always some bizarre twist of fate that caused it, not him or the gun.

Even the most rabid shooters among us have to admit we know several of these guys and have seen scads more on the range and in the field. And the smug superiority demonstrated by many that their favorite/preferred cartridge is all anyone needs is just ego talking because common sense doesn't abide with them.

An experienced shooter that takes the time to get to know their firearm and can perform reasonably with it before taking the field is more the exception than the rule. And shooting at paper that doesn't move off of the bench or leaning over a fence post is quite different from hitting a small target of vitals on a moving or wary animal under field conditions, bluster, brag and BS aside.

An ethical hunter either fulfills these things on his own if choosing to use less than optimum equipment/methods or uses optics, cartridges, actions, and whatnot that make hitting a live target a more sure and easier proposition.

These threads always deteriorate into the he-men heading toward relating how all they ever use is a slingshot and it does just fine . . . .

[retiredtech]

Forget all the rest and get a Real Gem, the savage 99 pre mil is far and away the best!

Many great Calibers and super to look at,never hunt with an ugly gun!

[Bullseye 2620]

Originally Posted by NFrameFred

There is much validity to the notion that the old thutty-thutty gets a bad rap. But I maintain that most gun owners CAN"T SHOOT.

I'm talking about the AVERAGE gun owner who owns a shotgun, a 22 rifle and one or two more and their attitude is "ammo is too expensive and I can't afford to shoot much or I don't have a place to shoot." "Besides, I been a-shootin' fer years and I ain't never needed nothin' fancy and I've kilt hunnerts o' deer !" "No, I don't need to practice - I can do it when I need to". Ad nauseum - we've all heard it.

Yes - in capable hands a 357 or a 44 mag 75 to 100 yards out will do the job. Iron sights will do the job. What the heck - a .22 LR will do the job in the right hands. But for the average, casual shooter, a hard to shoot gun/marginal cartridge/hard to use/inadequate sights, etc . do not help. I worked with a clown that swore by the 30 Carbine as an all around cartridge for anything from mice to moose - he had killed "dozens" of deer with it. But I was around him enough to know that every year he wounded several before finally lucking up and killing one but it was always some bizarre twist of fate that caused it, not him or the gun.

Even the most rabid shooters among us have to admit we know several of these guys and have seen scads more on the range and in the field. And the smug superiority demonstrated by many that their favorite/preferred cartridge is all anyone needs is just ego talking because common sense doesn't abide with them.

An experienced shooter that takes the time to get to know their firearm and can perform reasonably with it before taking the field is more the exception than the rule. And shooting at paper that doesn't move off of the bench or leaning over a fence post is quite different from hitting a small target of vitals on a moving or wary animal under field conditions, bluster, brag and BS aside.

An ethical hunter either fulfills these things on his own if choosing to use less than optimum equipment/methods or uses optics, cartridges, actions, and whatnot that make hitting a live target a more sure and easier proposition.

These threads always deteriorate into the he-men heading toward relating how all they ever use is a slingshot and it does just fine . . . .

There is so much truth in this, it needs no further amplification.

I'm looking now for a Marlin 336 in either .30-30 or .35 Remington. There's a guy who advertises on GB who does accuracy jobs on 'em, and has a < 1 MOA guarantee at 100 yards, and a .460 3-shot group with .35 Remington posted. I take the position that you can never have enough inherent accuracy because it makes it easier to diagnose and correct your errors. Pretty pricey, but as the man said, the only interesting guns are accurate guns. Accuracy job, Bushnell Elite 3200 2-7x32mm on top, in .35 Remington, given my skill level, I'd feel comfortable on most shots out to 150 yards, and I have never seen a 150 yard shot in all the years I have lived here.

I continue to be amazed at the depth of experience on this board on virtually any gun issue, and thank everyone for their taking the time to school me.


Bullseye

[Snapping Twig]

FWIW, Marlins are capable of bolt action accuracy straight out of the box with proper sized bullets if you use cast. Jackets shoot good w/o any modifications other than load work-up.

[DeadAye]

A friend right at made me try out his Winchester 94 in 7-30 Waters to use instead of my usual 357 mag pistol.
After that week I went and bought a 7-30 Waters Carbine barrel for my Contender and it's either that or the 686 for local deer now. I hunt in an area where a 100 yard shot would be pretty unusual though, with 50 being about average.
The 7-30 really does the job and I appreciate like the light weight of the TC, or a pistol, while dragging a deer up and down and through the swamp and up and down to get back to the truck.

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by Jswiney9

get a good USED marlin 336 .30-30 for around 300 bucks.

Load it up with LEVERevolution 140gr monoflex

All one needs out to 200 yards.