For those fans of the classic Thompson submachine gun, Dillon Precision has just published an article I authored on it in the March issue of the Blue Press catalog/magazine which is being distributed now. That article is depicted below. Bear in mind that it's copyrighted to Dillon Precision. Subscriptions to the Blue Press are free and can be ordered by calling Dillon at 1-800-223-4570. Hope you like it.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Very interesting, thanks for sharing.
When i was in the 6th grade (about 1976) I did a report on the Thompson for school. If a 6th grader tried that today most teachers would get the vapors and have the student suspended.

Last time I checked, Colt Thompsons were selling upward of $25,000 even in a depressed economy. I don't think there are more than 2000 transferable Colts around.

Great article John. Congradulations, we definately have some very talented people on this Forum

Last Sunday I got to see a display by the Berrien County Michigan Sheriff's Department which included two of the Thompsons that have been ballisticaly traced to the St. Valentine's day Massacre. Very interesting display if your ever out this way.

Your writing makes the Blue Press something I want to open and read whether I am in need of reloading supplies or not. Dillon is above first rate in my estimation.

Very nice article. Good job.

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1601 (ret)

I save every one of the "Classic Guns" articles. I remove them from the Blue Press and have them all in a folder. Some day, they will all be put under plastic and placed on the wall of my reloading room. I am looking forward to the March issue! Great job!


WG840

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Freedom above all else.

Congratulations, wonderful artical!
A couple weeks ago Moosedog, and I were fortunate enough to view this this Thompson sub-machine gun.
What's interesting about this Thompson is it once belonged to the Purple Gang (Detroit). It was "fished out of the Detroit river" many years ago.

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Fixed it for you moosedog. You forgot the pic.

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Paladin, do you know if any Thompsons were assembled by Kilgore? Had several family members that worked for Kilgore at the time and I always wondered.

Not to my knowledge. First was Colt, contracted to Auto Ordnance. Then Savage during WWII. AO languished for a number of years after the war; then it was bought by the folks at Gun Parts Corporation (Numrich Arms) and guns were manufactured in West Hurley, NY. Then AO was sold to Kahr in recent years. These are the only manufacturers of the TSMG that I'm aware of. Magazines, on the other hand, were made by quite a number of manufacturers. Most prolific were the 30-round mags made by the Seymour Products Co. in Seymour, Connecticut in the WWII period. Again, to my knowledge, no Kilgore-mfd. mags exist.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

The Kilgore Toy company of Westerville, Ohio owned AO for a few years after the War. Kilgore made cap guns and cast iron toys before the war, detonators and fusees during the war, and for some reason purchased the left over Thompson parts, machinery, right to manufacture, etc.. I've just always wondered if any firearms were assembled while Kilgore owned it.

Again, not to my knowledge. After WWII , Maguire Industries owned AO and parts and equipment passed hands, but I'm not aware of any manufacture. Kilgore bought AO for $385K in 1949, anticipating a Thompson contract with Egypt which never materialized. Numrich bought the AO name and parts/equipment in 1951, and as mentioned, did some assembling and then manufacture under former Numrich employee Ira Trast (who bought the AO name) until the sale of all assets to Kahr recently. BSA (Birmingham Small Arms) in Britain, in consultation with AO, did make some prototype Thompsons in .45 and 9mm early in the game, but production never started due to the Great Depression.

So, the manufacturers were:

Colt (contracted to AO)
AO itself - mostly from Bridgeport CT
BSA (prototypes only)
Savage
Numrich/Trast/AO
Kahr/AO

Who knows, maybe other information on Kilgore's involvement may turn up, but that's the best of my knowledge.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

OK Thanks.

About a month ago i went to a range supported by the wildlife dept. There was a guy there who had a thompson along with a half dozen other guns, including a 50 cal rifle and a silenced 22. I wrongly guessed in was a semi auto, so when he asked if I wanted to shoot the 50 or the 45, I politely declined. One other guy came over and shot the 50 - WOW. after he was packing up to leave, he said something about the 45 was $11,000, I knew I had screwed up. Yep, it was an orig full auto 45 Thompson. I was too embarrassed at that point to have him pull it back out. Once in a lifetime chance, no doubt.


Charlie

Mr. Marshall, I applaud this latest example of your always excellent work --- as ever a fact-filled, succinct summation of the salient points in the few words allocated for the purpose. You mentioned that AO had teamed with Lyman for sights. Was there a similar arrangement with Cutts Compensator, whose product I closely associate with the Thompson? And, can you refresh my memory on the vaguely recalled matter of some scandal involving the illegal sale of Thompsons to the Irish Republican Army between the Wars?

A few hours with a Dremel Tool, a bit of Cold Blue and that would be a really nice gun.
I guess those guys are just too lazy to fix her up

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In dog years I'm dead.

You sound like a history buff!

The Cutts compensator was invented by Col. Richard Cutts, together with his son Lt. Richard Cutts Jr., both Marine Corps officers. The Army turned the device down for high-powered arms, as the side and back blast were too much. In 1926, Lt. Cutts offered the compensator to AO for its pistol-caliber subgun. AO found that it worked satisfactorily and that it increased the Thompson's full auto accuracy. AO signed a royalty agreement with Cutts and started offering the compensator in the fall of 1926. The retail sales price was $25 extra when the gun was equipped with the Cutts. So equipped, the Model 1921 sold for $200 and the Model 1928 later sold for $225, with one 20-round magazine included.

In 1921, 495 Thompsons were found in the hold of a ship in Hoboken NJ. The ship was bound for Ireland. It became known that the Irish rebels were counting on a shipment from the U.S. The British government protested to AO, who denied any involvement. But a couple of weeks earlier, the company had sold 50 guns to three Irishmen in care of a saloon in Manhattan. These guns evidently did reach Ireland. Also, the 495 guns that were intercepted had been sold to a man named Gordon Rorke, who was evidently a front man for the Irish Republican Army (IRA).

Rumors circulated at the time that Thomas Fortune Ryan, AO's financial angel, was involved. Supposedly Ryan was one of a number of businessmen who contributed a lot of money to the IRA. Also, in 1920, Marcellus Thompson, John Thompson's son, had evidently instructed one of his salesmen to see what the Irish thought of the gun.

AO had demonstrated the Thompson to a man named Dineen in Chicago who had expressed interest in buying a large number of guns on behalf of "another party." Dineen took a pair of guns and demonstrated for a couple of IRA agents. They charged Dineen to demonstrate the gun in Ireland to IRA leaders. This he did, hiding the two guns in his luggage. In Dublin, the guns were fired and examined by the IRA leadership including Michael Collins in the basement of a house in Dublin.

A rash of Thompson orders were generated by front men for the IRA in the U.S., and Dept. of Justice officers seized AO records and picked up several men for questioning. Marcellus Thompson was arrested for selling arms to a military enterprise carrying on against a nation with whom the U.S. was at peace. Thompson claimed to be unaware of what was going on. Nothing came of that case. The 495 seized guns were released to one Joseph McGarrity (who happened to have been involved with Irish rebels). These guns were in all probability later smuggled to Ireland in small lots. Thompsons were definitely involved in the Sinn Fein rebellion and subsequent Irish Civil War.

Thompsons were not used extensively in the Irish trouble, but nonetheless, an old IRA ballad ran:

We're off to Dublin in the green, in the green,
Where the helmets glisten in the sun,
Where the bayonets flash and the rifles crash,
To the echo of a Thompson gun.

And that's how it happened.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

A friend of mine has a 1928 AC and I have shot it quite a bit. Lots of fun, but itkeeps the reloading press hot as well!!

The sheriff's department that I worked for back in the 1970s had an M2 carbine and the chief deputy carried it in his cruiser. He had me clean it once and, of course, I had to check it to make sure it functioned correctly.

IMHO, that gun climbed too much to be of much use in full auto.

I had control of 150 plus Hungarian AK 47s while working in Afghanistan. Never cared much for them either.

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WAR EAGLE!

If ever there was a gun which could benefit from an aluminum alloy receiver and a lightweight synthetic stock, the Thompson might have been it. Those things weigh a ton.

I agree. I have one of the fairly rare 1927A5 Thompson semiauto "pistols" which is stockless and is equipped with a 13" barrel. It does have an aluminum receiver, and is much handier. From the hip, it will keep those soda cans bouncing quite well!

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

"I have one of the fairly rare 1927A5 Thompson semiauto "pistols" which is stockless and is equipped with a 13" barrel."

Anybody make an ankle holster fer that one?

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!