I TELL YOU WHAT, back on 12/7 1941 at Pearl, me and my buddy Audie was havin a cold one when out of the skies came a mess of Jap Zeroes. Well I just happened to have my m12 xtree long bbl & some handloads, so's I jess laid that barrel on Murph's shoulder & began dropping them zeroes like crazy. If I'm lyin I'm dyin. Feel free to move this post to the tall tales section.

I'm in SE Ohio, good m12s can be had for $350 in 16&12 gauge.
The bulk of these in this area are 30" FC, you will find a few 28"
any choke other than full is scarce. 20s bring more and 28s are
Hi dollar. 32" & 34" and ribs bring premium. Guns with Cutts or
Poly Chokes are docked. 97s have jumped in price because of
Cow Boy Games. They are bringing more than M-12s. You can
have the 16 checked, I have never run across a sleeved 16g,
Turkey shooters are more into 12 gauge.

I was so excited about a M-12 thread until I looked at the date. I have a 16 ga M-12 and some in 12 ga.

I have always kept one eye open for 16 ga ammo. I have found it at yard sales and even at a Wmart close out. You buy it when you find it. I have some paper cat'tridges that have age on them but go bang. Found them in a rental house. The guy that lived/owned the home was there for 50 some years.

When the bolt drops down from wear it goes out of battery and will not fire. Know all about that one. that was the problem with my first M-12. Had Simmons in fix it for me. Ive owned 30 or so since.

Rem 870's are nice shotguns. The W-12 is a great gun regardless of type.

Remember when your uncle had a 6 cylinder Ford/Chevrolet, 3 on the tree and hand crank windows? It was a durable and dependable auto.

Lets say the town Dr pulled up next to you in his big Caddy, hit the button to roll up the windows and zoomed on down the road leaving you in the dust. The 3 on the tree car is the dependable 870, the well made Caddy zooming away is the Win M-12.

The 16 is made on a 20 ga frame. nice and light.

On all other pump guns you will find the 16 is made on a 12 ga frame, makes it unweildly and heavy.

Old time turkey hunters loved the 16.

The 3" 20 ga tried to pull the life support plug on the 16 but its too tough to go.

If you are suave and cool you have a M-12. If you are Bogey cool you have a 16 ga.

Another fine firearm which had the handy work of John M. Browning in it's design, sort of the grandson of the 1897 Winchester.

I have a M-12 12ga with vent rib and Cutts. Been reblued, refinished and it looks and shoots like new. Problem my Surgeon after my last shoulder surgery said no more shotguns or HP rifles. Guess the M-12 has to go but the Pre 64 M-70 I can't bring myself to part with.

Dang, sorry. I too have some of both models. I know a guy who's rotator cuff went bad, he learned to shoot left handed. Is that possible?

I know it's blasphemy but adding recoil reducers can take 300 WBY mag recoil down to 243 levels.

I just built an AR platform hunting rifle, 6.5 Grendel with bull bbl. To be truthful I have not yet felt it recoil. The weight and smaller cartridge seems to work well.

What is your M-70? Mine are standard 270's. I sold all the others when I retired.

I think it would be time to find a new surgeon. I couldn't imagine giving up on my model 12's or 70's. We have been through too much together to part ways. Just last week I slid down an ice covered ridge in pursuit of an elk, while carrying my old model 70. I gave it a few more character marks that day. A good alternative might be a nice Winchester model 42 410.

Advertised today on one of the 'sell anything with a free ad websites' is a LV located 1954 Model 12, 30" vent rib full choked barrel. The one picture makes it look pristine. It should be for the $1700 firm price. .......

Interesting that this thread came back to life...anyone who doesn't believe the Model 12 can blow itself open when fired may not be quite the "expert" they think they are. Once I got seriously interested in the Model 12 and buying/collecting I set out to not just learn a little about it, I am the type person that has to know all I can find. One of the problems I faced was the personal disbelief I had that this could happen. I grew up hanging out at the local rod and gun club and in the late seventies there were a lot of old timers around from the time when the model 12 was king. I just remembered what they all repeated and it stuck in my head..."you cant wear a model 12 out, the more you shoot them the tighter they get, that's the way it was designed!!!" Those fellas never steered me wrong before, it had to be true. Another persistent fallacy was the belief that "nickel steel" used in the older guns was superior to the later alloys. Or that they "had to stop using nickle steel because it was too expensive."
I have since repaired a half dozen or so with the self opening problem. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it cant be the locking recess or the bolt. I will say that none of the ones I repaired had that as the underlying cause. No, without exception, all of mine had the lug worn at the end of the action bar...just like Mr. Dunlap said. I will also say that this wear was not a matter of being shot a lot...it was more a matter of being shot bone dry.
Best advice I could give any owner/lover of the model 12 is to take it down and slop some kind of good quality gun grease on that little oval shaped lug and get some in the side of the bolt too. If there was ever a weak link on the model 12 this surely is it.
Remington's answer to the model 12, the 870, was always touted as "having twin action bars" in all their ads, even long after any one remembered the single bar of the model 12.
Here are three of my favorites...all 20 gauge guns. 28 gauges are rare, the few I have seen for sale all had a steam whistle on the barrel. I think it is fair to say that more high quality feather crotch and fiddleback black walnut was used to stock model 12's than any other firearm....hope you guys like these....

You are so right on this.

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I own and shoot mdl. 12'a & mdl. 97's...........Don't agree with it being the first successful repeating shot gun.....Maybe the first hammerless one....Ain't no flies on the 97 either! It was/is a superb pump gun too.

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Thomas Crossley Johnson(Winchester engineer) designed the mdl. 12. He did use some of the features from the 1897. JMB designed the 1893 and it was improved upon by Winchester and evolved into the 1897..A much improved shotgun.

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The BPS is bottom ejecting design that was (cloned/improved upon) the remington mdl. 10(designed by JMB) and improved upon with the design and mfg. of the Ithaca mdl. 37.

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So.....the Model 12 cannot blow itself open??? I guess I dreamed it with the six I repaired. The bolt wont move upwards if you pump the gun empty and push up on the follower??? That was Roy Dunlap's dream, and the 870 didn't close down Winchester in 1964......
I'll concede to two things, Okay, "first successful hammerless repeater" and you missed three out of four, in one post, you're and expert on the model 12!!!!! You win!!!!!

Not an expert by a long shot. What I was referring to was the cheaper stamped parts 870 won out to the labor intensive cost of the mdl. 12. Also everything else I stated is historically true and can be fact checked.

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Priced those lately? Whew. But yeah, it's sure be hard to give up all my 12s, too.