Thinking I should try a 1911 - been thinking this for a long time now. Been watching for S&W's but don't seem to find any under $750 that are in good condition.

I have an opportunity to pick up a Para P12 for $475 - looks to be in excellent to very good condition by the photos - going over to look at it tomorrow. I'm not familiar with Para so thought I would ask here if anyone here owns one of these - are they well made? Good quality? Is that a fair price for VG model P12 w/2 mags and N/sites?

Thanks for your feed-back in advance.

Pete

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Don't tread on me

I would pass on a Para p12. I've had a couple. They made them in alloy frame also. Mine were "problematic". If you are starting into 1911's, stick with a 5" base model single stack. There's a myriad of decent Colt 1911 copies for $500 new. Nite sights for what? Also look up grips available for p12.

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SOS USA

I know of several very happy Para owners. Shop owner friend reports very few problems with the numerous new pistols he has sold over the years. The ones I have fired were accurate and functioned well.

I have a Para P16. 40 S&W. I like it, bought it used with lots of goodies on and in it. I have used it for IDPA and bowling pin matches. I have mag extensions that will let me put 18 and 19 rounds in it and run like a clock.

I used it at a 3 gun match at West Point in the rain one time then put skateboard tape all over it.

I hardly use it now that I got into M&Ps but I wouldn't let it go for less than $600 with all the mags. It would make a great SHTF gun for a teammate.

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Shoot fast & live long
Warren

A Para that runs is a joy to shoot. A Para that stove pipes, fails to feed, jams, can't group 5 shots touching at 15 feet, or otherwise misbehaves is a MONEY PIT. I have an all stainless steel P13 that is incredibly reliable and accurate (used & almost NIB for $550 8 years ago ). Bought a SS P16 40 S&W, new, $1,000 and a money pit. Spent $500 on parts & gunsmith fees to make it work.

If the seller let's you shoot a box (50 rounds) of ammo without failure it is a good deal. Otherwise, run Forrest, run!!!

I'm stupid, and also have a SS P18 9 mm, SS Long slide 45 ACP, and P10 40 S&W. In my opinion old Paras are more reliable out of the box than current production.

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S&WHF 366

P12 is a 3.5" with same setup and all issues of a Colt Officers. If they run they're great. You asked, I'm done.

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SOS USA

I've owned several P12s, and actually shot two of them. They have some of the same issues shared by all short barreled 1911, as best I can tell. The one I've retained is one of the fairly rare SS versions, and I found that it wanted extra power mag springs to be reliable (it's not yet got enough rounds thru it to be considered properly broken in). The other P12 seemed to wear out recoil springs fairly quickly, i.e., at +/- 1,200 rounds --- quickly and inexpensively cured. $475 is a good price for that gun w/nite sights, if it's in good condition, which it probably is, as this is not the sort of pistol that sees high round count competition use or the like. My only "complaint" is that with a 12 round mag in place, it balances a bit awkwardly in some holsters, but this is a minor issue.

I know a few people that love Para 1911's. However, I can't bring myself to trust them.

Worked weekends at an indoor range/gun shop or a couple years. We had several Para 1911's for rent due to Para's rental program. We had nothing but problems. Sent them back and the first time two of them were rented after they were repaired, they broke again. We experience cracked slides, broken hammers, and other issues.

Not to rain on your parade, that's just my experience with them.

Hey that's no problem - rain on the parade guys - I wanted to know if the gun is a "quality" firearm and from what I'm hearing, that is questionable. I simply thought a 1911 might be fun to own - no need for nite sites or many other "options" on it just something that is accurate and reliable for range and maybe for CC on Sunday. But I really don't want to spend money on something that isn't reliable. From what I'm reading - compact carry isn't the way to go with this model of firearm? Short barrel causes problems with feeding/ejection?

I'm was thinking that Para is/was fair quality, but what I'm reading here is RIA might be a better gun to buy for the price?? But that's why I asked here - I know I'll get a fair assessment of the gun from here. Thanks for all the input - really helps me. I'll go look - but will look from a different perspective.

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Don't tread on me

Well, my experience with them could be the exception. I don't know. But I don't want to give them a try because there are so many other 1911's available.

The RIA isn't a bad gun. I had one in 45 ACP and 38 Super. They worked well. Most of the "budget" 1911's such as RIA, Citadel, High Standard, Charles Daly, American Classic, and others that are made by Armsor (Philippines) are decent guns. They aren't quite as refined as S&W, Kimber, Dan Wesson etc...... But for the price, they are a great value.

Also, 1911's in less than Commander length have always been suspect. Of course there are those that work well. But they almost never equal the reliability of a government model.

I used to own two four inch 1911's. Never again.

Besides if it's for plinking and/or occasional carry, nothing beats a full size 1911 IMHO.

I'm not a 1911 shooter so I don't have a dog in this fight. However, I've been told by 1911 shooters who I have a lot of respect for that when you get under 4 inches in barrel length they become VERY finicky in regards to magazine spring pressure and recoil springs.

I've also seen a lot of postings on the net that indicate what's been said here, that is the good Para's run great but the clunkers will drive you up a wall.

Personally, if I were to get a 1911 and I will admit I do get curious from time to time, I would save up for a S&W, Ruger, or Springfield. As for why, all 3 companies have superb reputations for customer support. BTW, the one I find particularly tempting is the Ruger SR1911, it's got all the essentials but none of the features I don't have a need for.

Nothing against those you mentioned. But take a serious look at Dan Wesson when the time comes.

Pete,
I just got a new RIA mil-spec for $379, new. It's my second
one, and works as good as the first. TACC1

Yea...thinking I better do more research before dropping a dime on one. Evidently there is a lot more to 1911's than I thought. I downloaded a manual for one and see that tear down is not as easy as a 3rd Gen S&W or a Sig P model either. What else don't I know about 1911's???

Don't you just hate it when you get cold feet?

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Don't tread on me

Research can't hurt. But don't over think it. 1911's are not hard to maintain at all.

They are many reasons why John Brownings 100 year old design is still going strong and as beloved as ever. Some that don't care for the 1911 call the design old and archaic.

That couldn't be more untrue. The best thing you can do is rent one and see for yourself.

Good advise - thanks for all the information and the input.

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Don't tread on me

Google *1911forum*
and goto the one "Powered by vBulletin"

They have sections devoted to right at every manufacturer's 1911 type.
RIA seems to be the best of the low cost offerings and one of the factory reps hangs out there - as an added bonus.

Lots of info on an absolutely wonderfully designed machine.

BTW - It's NOT hard to maintain (or disassemble/reassemble) a 1911.

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In dog years I'm dead.

I have a steel P-13 that I bought in the early 90's. Also have a P-15 .40 cal, a P-16 LTD in .40 cal, and a P-10 in stainless.
I have shot the P-13 quite a bit over the years with never a issue. My sister claims it is "her's" and likes shooting it also. I bought the P-13 new and I think it was just about $700.
The P-15 and P-16 are very accurate, but I rarely shoot them.
Chop

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MSG US Army