Marlin Closing?

[RonJ]

I've read reports on two other boards that they are shutting down production. Doesn't seem to be clear if it's temperorary or not. Reportedly John Taffin has been posting this rumor. Have you heard anything?

[sigp220.45]

They've been bought out by Cerberus, and are closing their historic plant.

Marlin to Shut Down Connecticut Plant and Lay Off 265 Workers « Daily Bulletin

[mkk41]

Cerberus , the big conglomerate that bought Remington , Bushmaster , DPMS , Marlin and I forget what other gun companies , is closing some traditional factories and consolidating them to larger , modern facilities.

[beach elvis]

Now that just plain hurts me to my heart.

[hatt]

Halting production was their only move since they were putting out junk and didn't know how to fix it. Hopefully they'll get it worked out and start putting out some good guns.

[RonJ]

This seems to be a much more recent developement.

Reeder Custom Guns - ON FRIDAY THE FREEDOM GROUP

[Maximumbob54]

I'm still trying to figure how to feel about this. There just isn't enough information being released nor is it likely we will ever know for sure what motivated this. Any plant can have the same wage issues and concerns and be said that could be a reason for closing. So do the anger monkeys take flight and scream never again another Remington product or would that feeble message even get through to Cerberus and even if it did would they even care??? Modern manufacturing... is the devil... or corporate manufacturing is the devil... either way, the devil seems to be taking more charge of this than it seems we should allow. The buying dollars just don't command what is built anymore.

[Faulkner]

I heard they'll be making Marlins and Remingtons in the same plant. Soon to be dubbed "Marlingtons".

[williamlayton]

This is not a new development. I have been reading about this for a year.
It is my understanding that all knew of the move to the South to cut cost and conflicts with Unions. i was also of the understanding that some were going to be allowed to relocate if they desired.
I am not sure that this is a sudden thing but the actual date may have come upon them suddenly, after all things were finailized.
Unions are going to take a beating for awhile--wheather deserved/wrongfully it makes no difference---the pendilum swings.
Blessings

[jack the toad]

Originally Posted by Faulkner

I heard they'll be making Marlins and Remingtons in the same plant. Soon to be dubbed "Marlingtons".

Makes sense as I heard Marlin was moving production facilities to North Carolina.

[peyton]

We call them Remlins, yes it rhymes with Gremlins because all of the new ones have problems!! If you want a surpise, check out the prices of "Pre-Remington" Marlins versus the "Old" Marlins. Rifles that would sell for under $500 are now reaching $800 to $1,000. The Cowboy models have jumped the most.

[redlevel]

I think this is indeed a new development. When the move was made to NY, none of the production people from North Haven made the move. The word has been that the rifles manufactured in NY have suffered from some pretty bad QC issues. Supposedly, they are maybe not shutting down for good, but trying to get the problems ironed out.

There is a lot of discussion at Paco Kelly's Leverguns site.

[Andy Griffith]

It's a good thing that Rossi has started making guns on the 336 style action. They've been pluging away with 92's for a long time, and the price is right on them. Now, if they will make an 1894 style action...

Now, choices in lever actions are:

Japanese Winchesters
Brazilian Rossi rifles
Pot metal Henrys
Spaghetti Ubertis

What's the world coming to??? Can Americans not make anything any more???

[walnutred]

Originally Posted by Andy Griffith

Now, choices in lever actions are:

Japanese Winchesters
Brazilian Rossi rifles
Pot metal Henrys
Spaghetti Ubertis

What's the world coming to??? Can Americans not make anything any more???

Saturday I was at a cook out at a cousins and he showed me his Henry Big Boy and mentioned that with tax he paid just over $700. I was shocked and asked why he didn't buy a Marlin since you could find them in the $500-$600 range. He commented that I must not have been shopping lately, and was correct.

[Maximumbob54]

Originally Posted by Andy Griffith

It's a good thing that Rossi has started making guns on the 336 style action. They've been pluging away with 92's for a long time, and the price is right on them. Now, if they will make an 1894 style action...

Now, choices in lever actions are:

Japanese Winchesters
Brazilian Rossi rifles
Pot metal Henrys
Spaghetti Ubertis

What's the world coming to??? Can Americans not make anything any more???

Sure we can. We just can't make it as cheaply as they can cost wise. And thus the move South.

[indiandave]

Originally Posted by walnutred

Saturday I was at a cook out at a cousins and he showed me his Henry Big Boy and mentioned that with tax he paid just over $700. I was shocked and asked why he didn't buy a Marlin since you could find them in the $500-$600 range. He commented that I must not have been shopping lately, and was correct.

Same thing happened to me. I couldn't find a Marlin so I bought a Henry. it shoots well but I hate the way you have to load it. they are made in New Jersey and are well made.

[Faulkner]

Originally Posted by Andy Griffith

It's a good thing that Rossi has started making guns on the 336 style action. They've been pluging away with 92's for a long time, and the price is right on them. Now, if they will make an 1894 style action...

Now, choices in lever actions are:

Japanese Winchesters
Brazilian Rossi rifles
Pot metal Henrys
Spaghetti Ubertis

What's the world coming to??? Can Americans not make anything any more???

Spaghetti Ubertis are probably the best of the lot. I'd bet they're better made than the originals.

[slumpy]

I thought this post was about fishing.

[Andy Griffith]

Look, I'm not knocking the stuff up there- most know me enough to know most of the stuff I've knocked...

It's just sad that talented American workers and an old, stand-by brand have suffered from corporate shenanigans and terrible decisions, whether deliberate or not.

Things used to be when Americans used to look down on items that were imported. Sadly, those days are long gone and likely are never to be see again.

[hatt]

You can't blame the corporations. Americans want cheap. Quality takes a back seat. The companies are delivering what's in demand.

And, most everything I've ever heard(from actual owners) about the pot metal Henrys has been good. I'm sure they could produce a design with nice forged steel if they wanted to reduce sales significantly.

[Maximumbob54]

Originally Posted by hatt

You can't blame the corporations. Americans want cheap. Quality takes a back seat. The companies are delivering what's in demand.

And, most everything I've ever heard(from actual owners) about the pot metal Henrys has been good. I'm sure they could produce a design with nice forged steel if they wanted to reduce sales significantly.

I don't know if I fully believe that. No, I don't want prices jumping up on me on the products that I buy. But that isn't to say I want a continual change for the cheesy in the parts build of what I buy. I doubt back in 1965 there was a line of guys shouting they were looking forward to stamped pinned together parts in their lever rifles. The rifle may have still functioned to the point that you pull the trigger and it went bang, but even now today there are guys willing to pay big bucks for pre 64 stuff. Some of the guns in the S&W PC can be bought with forged internals still and there are guys that are willing to pay for that. The price point is a draw to a large crowd, there is no denying that. But to dumb down an entire line to appease that crowd cuts many out and can force them to buy elsewhere. I guess the bean counters know best for sales though.

[ladder13]

I want quality and don't mind paying for it.

[Maximumbob54]

I guess my ealier point was if you wanted a lesser rifle back in the day you bought a Glenfield that was still a decent rifle but not finished as well as the Marlin. Now you just get a sub Glenfield quality Marlin. You have no choice. I too would gladly pay for quality when I wanted it. And with guns, that would be pretty often.

[rburg]

I see this as inevitable, but I view it with mixed emotions, too.

I own no Marlins, or Colts. I have in the past but I just don't like the designs or quality. So I'm the root cause of the closing. Their products just don't please me, and I'm not buying stuff I don't like. But then I'm old and have moved up the ladder. I can buy what I want these days. Along with that comes the ability to not buy things, too.

The unions play a significant role. They work against themselves and the companies they work for. They constantly demand higher wages and benefits. But then they also work against modernization of facilities, steps that would maybe improve quality and productivity. Its never quick, it takes place over long periods of time, careers really. But eventually it gets the point where the company ends up paying a lot more for a lot less. And if a worker screws up big time, the union does its level best to keep the guy employed at high wages (so he can feed his family, make the payments on his overbought home and new pickup truck, etc.) But in the end all that baggage takes its toll on profitability. The company isn't making money and the stockholders are unhappy (those stockholders are the pension plans you depend on, etc.)

So the company gets sold and the new owners take a cold hard look at both the situation. Then they realize that of the 265 workers, about half are really good, but there are maybe 10% that are just a burden. They can't get rid of them for various reasons, seniority probably. And they discover the only way to return to profitability is to close the plant. Its old and inefficient anyway. Between 100 year old design and union work rules, the only way to keep the brand alive is to move production to a place far away, with right to work laws. Or overseas where they have a much better work ethic.

And the American gun owner still has choices. If you want or need a Marlin, just go to a gun show and buy one. Probably can get one made back when they cared for about the same amount as a brand new poorly finished one. If history is a guide, the old ones go up in price and the new ones go down anyhow.

Or you buy a Winchester or Browning (made in Japan to some really high quality and well finished.) Yes, I prefer American made, but I prefer my Winchesters to be prewar (I'd accept pre-64 as second best.) With handguns, I divested myself of all the Colts. The newly made ones weren't very good, to say the least. I prefer old S&Ws for a number of reasons. Its my money, I'll try to spend it wisely, and as I please. If you want a new Marlin, buy one some shop has in stock.

[off road]

If they moved production as a union busting move...well then God bless them!!!

In just got an 1895SBL last week. It had been on order for many many months. I have to say that the fit and finish are not anywhere close to the several Marlins that I have owned in the past. This is a dangerous game SD gun, and I have to say that the gun shoots and handles great, and it is going to get thrashed around in the field anyway....so maybe 'fit and finish' is an outdated concept for a field gun anyway?

[Maximumbob54]

Fit and finish is NEVER an out dated concept. That is a lose business concept.

[hatt]

Originally Posted by Maximumbob54

I don't know if I fully believe that. No, I don't want prices jumping up on me on the products that I buy. But that isn't to say I want a continual change for the cheesy in the parts build of what I buy. I doubt back in 1965 there was a line of guys shouting they were looking forward to stamped pinned together parts in their lever rifles. The rifle may have still functioned to the point that you pull the trigger and it went bang, but even now today there are guys willing to pay big bucks for pre 64 stuff. Some of the guns in the S&W PC can be bought with forged internals still and there are guys that are willing to pay for that. The price point is a draw to a large crowd, there is no denying that. But to dumb down an entire line to appease that crowd cuts many out and can force them to buy elsewhere. I guess the bean counters know best for sales though.

There are always some people who want high quality, and there's always someone to fill that demand. High end guns are everywhere if you care to pay. You'll always be able to find a beater Marlin, or Remlin, or any other platform, take it to a craftsman, let him replace/modify most of the parts, and turn it into a masterpiece. Selling to this select group is not going to support a large gun company with hundreds of employees however.

I'm fairly certain the cheapest Henry .22 models outsell every brass and steel gun they make combined, and by a wide margin. So they could "keep it real" or they could come up with a product that many people want to buy.

[5Wire]

Originally Posted by Faulkner

I heard they'll be making Marlins and Remingtons in the same plant. Soon to be dubbed "Marlingtons".

or Remlins. They seem to be improving.

[off road]

Originally Posted by Maximumbob54

Fit and finish is NEVER an out dated concept. That is a lose business concept.

Historically, guns have been works of art. Now a days, guns are made of ungodly things like plastic and such. This is a 'tool', and not something to sit in a glass case and be admired. Maybe we need to get over an outdated concept. I don't really care how 'pretty' my Skillsaw is, I just want it to cut wood.

[2152hq]

I worked at Marlin in North Haven in the early 70's. It was the 'new' factory then having just moved everything up from the original digs in New Haven in summer of '69 IIRC.

When I worked there I do not recall being a member of a labor union. I would have remembered, believe me.
The union must have came in later and improved everything.
Sorry to see the place close.

A perfectly good the 200m range under the building goes to waste..

[Andy Griffith]

I almost forgot, but a person used to be able to buy "loopy buzzard" hammerless lever action boat anchor rifles too- when they made them. They were American made, but IMHO- really ugly.

[Rule3]

Gee, I thought they just got bought up by the Freedom Group and moved the NC.??

Marlin Firearms - Contact

[Maximumbob54]

I will always prefer a functioning work of art to a throw away quality type gun.

EDIT: When I say "throw away quality" I don't mean "Saturday night special" or similar. I mean the cheap plastic molded frames that still have sprue lines or micro bubbles at the edges, or the zinc cast and plastic. Everything has a price point they are trying to beat and I can respect that if it puts a gun into a buyers hands that otherwise couldn't afford it. But the steady cheapening down of ALL guns is what I'm talking about. Sure, there are still some high end ultra customs out there that still get it done right, but they are getting rare and are very small time and usually special order only. The top two major players have been Colt and Smith and Wesson for a long time. There was a time where darn near everything they both made was nothing but quality and if you wanted to pay a bit less then you got a flat finish and less bells and whistles added on. Now you get plastic parts in their bread and butter sales guns. And our society had a serious throw away mentality with plastic junk/trash. Thus my reasoning in this post. The plastic main spring housing in my Colt 1991 A1 may work just fine, but it was still replaced post haste. The rubber stocks on my Smith and Wesson may work just fine, but they are still being replaced. They are both throw away parts. I don't want to buy throw away parts. They may as well save the few bucks and sell me a gun minus the plastic and allow me to buy what I want separate. But by that same logic, I would pay extra for some real forged internals, at least flash chrome the MIM parts, or even make some sharp rifled barrels as options to the regular EDM round rifling barrels. Yeah, I know, fat chance.

[Wayne02]

Originally Posted by hatt

Halting production was their only move since they were putting out junk and didn't know how to fix it. Hopefully they'll get it worked out and start putting out some good guns.

Yep. Wife paid big bucks for a new Marlin lever-action as a birthday gift for me. The gun looked (and operated) like it was manufactured by junior high school students.

This experience is why I am no longer on the, 'buy American regardless of quality bandwagon'. It does our country no good to just blindly buy American made products if they are not also of superior quality.

I don't mind paying more for U.S. made products, but American manufacturer's need to earn my business with a superior quality product.

It says, 'proudly made by American craftsmen' or some such on the Marlin box. If this is the best that 'American craftsmen' can do then as a country we are doomed.

[Raider]

Some folks take care of their tools and admire them too. I have tools that have been used for over 40 years and immaculately maintained. I admire them for their usefulness and brilliant design. A good wood and steel pistol or rifle is no more comparable to a Skilsaw than a Yugo is to a Corvette. There is much to be said of pride of ownership as well as utility.

Charlie

Originally Posted by off road

Historically, guns have been works of art. Now a days, guns are made of ungodly things like plastic and such. This is a 'tool', and not something to sit in a glass case and be admired. Maybe we need to get over an outdated concept. I don't really care how 'pretty' my Skillsaw is, I just want it to cut wood.

[hatt]

Tools are the same way. You can buy high quality tools. But you can hardly walk in the stores(Harbor Freight, etc) selling the junk because they're so busy.

[Maximumbob54]

Originally Posted by Wayne02

Yep. Wife paid big bucks for a new Marlin lever-action as a birthday gift for me. The gun looked (and operated) like it was manufactured by junior high school students.

This experience is why I am no longer on the, 'buy American regardless of quality bandwagon'. It does our country no good to just blindly buy American made products if they are not also of superior quality.

I don't mind paying more for U.S. made products, but American manufacturer's need to earn my business with a superior quality product.

It says, 'proudly made by American craftsmen' or some such on the Marlin box. If this is the best that 'American craftsmen' can do then as a country we are doomed.

Originally Posted by Raider

Some folks take care of their tools and admire them too. I have tools that have been used for over 40 years and immaculately maintained. I admire them for their usefulness and brilliant design. A good wood and steel pistol or rifle is no more comparable to a Skilsaw than a Yugo is to a Corvette. There is much to be said of pride of ownership as well as utility.

Charlie

Amen brothers - I agree heavily with both comments. The fact that quality control, leadership/supervisory positions, and corporate boards think that certain products will still sell is a complete mystery to me. I have picked up brand new guns of various brands only to see what has to be factory blemish or not just poor but piss poor fitting and finishing on American brands. I know that the human factor or the Monday morning and Friday afternoon syndrome is a reality, but it's like more and more is made to that quality than I have ever seen before. And I don't care if it is union made or not. If it's not then shame on the craftsman who is sloppy and if it's union made then shame on the craftsman who is sloppy. Either one of them want better pay and such but if either one of them turns out junk then their job is in jeopardy. The politics of union anything can be damned if the factory is producing junk. Either way, we are still losers.

[Gun-runner]

Originally Posted by Andy Griffith

It's a good thing that Rossi has started making guns on the 336 style action. They've been pluging away with 92's for a long time, and the price is right on them. Now, if they will make an 1894 style action...

Now, choices in lever actions are:

Japanese Winchesters
Brazilian Rossi rifles
Pot metal Henrys
Spaghetti Ubertis

What's the world coming to??? Can Americans not make anything any more???

They can but they can't compete with cheap labor.

[Gun-runner]

Originally Posted by hatt

Tools are the same way. You can buy high quality tools. But you can hardly walk in the stores(Harbor Freight, etc) selling the junk because they're so busy.

And they have the same warranty on hand tools as Sears. If the piece of junk from Harbor Freight breaks you can return it for a new one.

[hatt]

Originally Posted by Gun-runner

And they have the same warranty on hand tools as Sears. If the piece of junk from Harbor Freight breaks you can return it for a new one.

They need that warranty. I've broke tools from there the same day. Luckily it was a set so as I broke snap ring pliers I could move on to the next one. I did manage to get the job done and simply returned the set. I try to avoid that place these days. "Please don't break until I get done" gets old. And I still need to invest in some good snap ring pliers. Craftsman isn't made like it use to be either. I bought a deep socket just for the lug nuts on my F350. Figured if I ever needed to change a tire a breaker bar would be better than the tire tool. Broke on the first nut. Still ended having to use the tire tool.

[LVSteve]

Weird, but I recently bought a Glenfield lever action that had been shortened to make a very handy brush gun, although the LOP is a bit short. This rifle is a badge engineered Marlin and looks beautifully made, so despite the mods maybe it will turn out to be an investment.